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"Why Modern Dating Makes Me Want to Punch Myself In The Throat"
Topic Started: Apr 24 2016, 10:13 PM (1,916 Views)
Saturos
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heart-under-blade

http://thoughtcatalog.com/melissa-moeller/2016/04/why-modern-dating-makes-me-want-to-punch-myself-in-the-throat/

Came across this article, and wanted to hear what you all thought. I'm not sure how applicable it'd be on Temple, but I think some of this also applies to some casual friendships, too.

If this doesn't resonate with you, then that's probably a good thing. xP

or inb4"I have no friends"
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Gilgamesh
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solbowz Aurarius

But what if-

[radio edit] you
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Dracobolt
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Incorrigible

Being frank about feelings is way less hassle than playing games.

:mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn:
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Kiki
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Kiki Martius Chantico

I think this article is more about the writer's insecurities, than anything. Granted I have not participated in the "dating culture" in the form of online apps and hookups and stuff. But even applied to platonic friendships -- you can't call someone to make plans? Would anyone honestly be that freaked out if a friend/date called them for coffee as opposed to texted them?

Quote:
 
If you're wondering where a relationship is going and you decide to bring it up, every word you say has to be carefully chosen so as to seem okay with any response you're given, even if you're not.


This is so untrue! There is no trend against expressing your thoughts in modern culture!

Quote:
 
we're forced to wait anxiously


who is forcing this poor woman

I think the writer just needed to vent cause she's romantically frustrated due to what seems to me to be her own shortcomings. A lot of people might relate to her, but that's cause what she's describing is something universal - humans are kind of cowardly so dating is really hard. I don't think there's anything modern or unique about it, and it's not just a cause of Tinder.
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Jackal
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Come and Take It - Temple Tsundere

Kiki
Apr 24 2016, 11:10 PM
Quote:
 
we're forced to wait anxiously


who is forcing this poor woman
the societal norms, keek
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Kiki
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Kiki Martius Chantico

Jackal
Apr 24 2016, 11:16 PM
Kiki
Apr 24 2016, 11:10 PM
Quote:
 
we're forced to wait anxiously


who is forcing this poor woman
the societal norms, keek
we must rescue her
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Jenn-uh
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hunny bunchkins sugarcube lettuce chamomile sweetie pumpkin schnitzel fries

Yeah, I agree with Kiki. These are symptoms of an unhealthy relationship where power isn't shared equally. This isn't true of dating across the board, thank God.
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Momentime
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uh oh

I agree with Kiki here. I mean I haven't done anything lately (lol school and work) but to me it sounds like she's making mountains out of molehills. If it takes 3 hours for someone to respond, there's like a billion different reasons why. They're at work, phone died, in class, didn't feel phone vibrate, or just can't take distractions, etc. If you're so keen on responding then just do it. Like chill man, [radio edit]. There's no game, car sex is just car sex, but if it does mean anything to you, you should probably bring it up instead of letting it fester.

Besides, it's hookup culture. If you want to call it a game then every single player can be swapped out, literally, at the touch of a button.

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Asphodel
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Electric Indigo

This resonates with me on a theoretical level.

What I mean is that this is my impression of modern dating from the outside looking in. I'd need things to be completely manifest and obvious or else I just wouldn't understand and/or assume the worst. I was hanging out with my housemates and one of their friends the other night and the latter decided to text this one girl he met at a bar earlier that evening. They were all "holy shit, don't do that. Wait until late tomorrow morning, or EARLY morning if you just want to hook up."

Like, what? What's the difference? How does one time imply one thing versus the other? Explain this to me, housemates, because I don't get it at all.

Which is why I don't date in the first place, ofc. I'd go completely nuts and overthink everything like the author of this article. :3
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Sundancer
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Stargazer

Going to sliiiightly disagree with people in this thread here. Also, this is relevant: https://medium.com/matter/against-chill-930dfb60a577#.yu5ds1h78

I think these sorts of experiences may be a bit specific to certain kinds of somewhat unhealthy/anxiety-inducing relationship patterns that I actually do observe a lot of people going through/friends of mine experiencing. I make it a very clear and explicit goal of my own to be more or less very upfront about communication with all my partners more or less as soon as I can, or if I'm not sure how things stand I also try to communicate that, but I have encountered a lot of surprise from both friends and partners for doing so. Less so in the queer/sex-positive/consent-centred communities I run in, but outside of those little bubbles, at a more or less early 20s sort of dating scene, I've noticed these sorts of things to be actual problems.

I don't think that's the case for everybody dating right now, and I certainly don't bother trying too hard to date people who want to play those games, but I do think it's present enough to be worth commenting on as a possible phenomenon that affects the ways people date in some circles. There may be some aspect of it that is the author's personal problems, but I think she's still commenting on a wider trend worth commenting on, speaking as somebody who has begun to date with some of these apps and so on, and also know friends who've expressed similar frustrations. I think the article I linked does a better job of explicating some of these patterns, though. It depends on how and who you date and what your standards and communication styles are, but for a lot of my friends who meet people on tinder and at parties and just kind of start "hanging out," I've noticed they do often run into these issues of miscommunication, and sometimes requests for clearer communication go poorly.
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Artemis
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Plus Ultra

I've been married too long, this article is impossible to relate to. Guess I'm just another God-damn stick in the mud.
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HyrulianJedi
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uguu~
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I don't think this is a problem with dating culture, per se, but a problem with the line where hookup and romantic relationships meet.

The author seems very much to be trying to combine the two areas into a single one - and they're not. There is a significant hookup culture, enhanced in recent years by technology, that focuses entirely on casual relationships, and while long-term romantic relationships certainly do form from them, they're side-effects, and not the intent. Many of the author's complaints are reminiscent of shopping for cars at a taxi stand.
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King in the North
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Hm nope I don't really recognize myself in or agree with anything in the text.

She just seems to have been in a first big relationship for the first time and suddenly think she knows everything about love, dating, relationship and life.

And of course, "it's not ME that's the problem, it's the MODERN INESCAPABLE SYSTEM!"

she seem to be total a nightmare to date

this whole text made me angry for some reason

thank you for doing this to my morning

:argh:
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Like Asphodel said, I've definitely had or heard comments from friends or heard people talk like this, especially during residence at university. Obviously it isn't the whole problem, but I've definitely seen enough of the stuff she talks about to recognize it as a 'real trend.' So yeah, echoing Sundancer on that, and the article she shared kind of keys into the same thing.
This article was shared by a few people on my Facebook feed, which is how I noticed it. I figured it must have been resonating with them as well. xP

I'm not sure if hookup culture and relationship culture are that separate, but I think it can be hard to mentally separate the two sometimes. People can't always remove their emotions from stuff like that. And if anything, I think the author was just asking for clarity about if people are only interested in hookups, or if they are indeed looking for a relationship. Because I do think a lot of it can go unspoken.
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

I'm inclined to agree somewhat with Sundancer's take here as well. I definitely see something in that editorial that resonates with me, and this is as someone who adamantly doesn't use Tinder or other dating services, or get involved in hookup culture at all. To some degree, I'm sure it is the author's insecurities talking; in that case, I'm probably just recognizing them because I have a few of the same ones myself! But regardless, I do think there's a legitimate observation here about a general aversion to openness in relationships.

I don't think it's because people are actually afraid of being vulnerable, or whatever it was that she speculated was the reason for it. In my experience, most people acknowledge that really loving someone often means letting yourself be vulnerable with them. I couldn't say with any certainty what the real explanation is. Maybe lots of people have an idealized perception of two partners' ability to understand each other without speaking due to the way these relationships are often portrayed in media? I don't know.

Bottom line, though, I think that at the very least, her point about the importance of open lines of communication is worth listening to.

Edit: To clarify, since it was asked elsewhere, by "openness in relationships" I mean honesty and being up-front about things, not open relationships. That's a whole nother can of worms I won't touch on.
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Sundancer
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Stargazer

Also, if anything, I feel like the responses in this thread show how widely ranging the "cultures" and trends regarding relationship formation/dating/hooking up/whatever you want to call it (note that this lack of clear nomenclature is part of the observed problem, too) really are, depending on your social circle, geographic location, life stage, etc. etc.

The communities I've seen this kind of thing apply in are overwhelmingly those of urban university-aged (or slightly older) youth who seem to definitely feel the pressure of being comfortable with a certain amount of sexual "openness" or casualness where empowerment and even social capital is, at least in part, predicated in having an acceptable amount of casual sex or having a certain "chill" approach to relationships. To give off a sense of being more or less independent, occasionally having a casual sex partner or two, little anxiety or investment in the emotional outcomes of those relationships, and a sense of not wanting to settle down too early (for fear of being boring/missing out/etc.) or with the "wrong person". And usually, these people are busy, still figuring out themselves and their own lives, often had poor models (by no fault of their own) for communication regarding issues of sexuality and so on, and simply surrounded by variously hormonal lonely/single people in great concentrations that they meet in often somewhat drunk/high situations at house parties, clubs, through casual dating apps, etc. There's nothing wrong with these people; this is simply the kind of social norm I observe to be present in these settings. I mean, I suppose one can be critical of people who uphold or feel impacted by this social norm (though I think that to be an overly simplified approach), but the point is that it definitely exists and affects people's relationships.

Think about how "netflix and chill" is, though now a joke, indicative of this kind of thing. A lot of people's relationships with others blur the grey line between platonic friendship and having sexual or romantic aspects, and the proximity and schedule/structuring of our lifestyles are conducive to this kind of casual closeness rather than necessarily a more "formal" process of dating with the intent of some kind of goal. And you have to admit, often times when we get into these things we really aren't sure what we want out of it, or with whom. Sometimes you're just getting to know somebody and feels come up. But then, when sex carries a kind of expectation of being easily doled out in an unproblematized manner -- I work at a sex ed centre, I have encountered people who run the gamut of feeling shame for not being as comfortable with sex as they think they should be to people who think their unconsenting partners are just being assholes rather than having many reasons for how they feel (not to mention, "no" is a complete sentence) -- it can be hard to navigate the intersection of casual sex and emotional investments. I would say that especially in North American cities with university aged youth, casual sex is almost expected.

This is why I think the chill article helps explain this and contextualize it in a broader cultural shift: "chill" is a desirable trait now, a way to impart your value as somebody who won't create "drama" and only ever has good times, down for any kind of adventure or just to ... well, netflix and chill. Don't be desperate and don't be passionate, too-quick investment is seen as bad... I mean, "fomo" is a real thing, I bet there are ways to see connections between that "fear of missing out" and the ideal college-aged youth's life. Admitting to fomo is sort of seen as shameful, but it points to that pressure that no doubt is exacerbated by cultural messaging and social media, where you can constantly tap into how many fun parties your peers are attending, how much alcohol they're consuming together, that great casual sex and hooking up they're doing, the ways they're fully inhabiting their youth by never being tied down to any one thing and having The Most Fun possible. That this is a myth doesn't detract from its cultural power. And if you're trying to uphold that image, to fit into this model of cool and cynical millenial (the "lazy" kid of baby boomer thinkpieces, over-privileged, over-indulged, either facing a job crisis or unwilling to do hard work depending on who you ask, saddled with debt -- looking at you, America -- moral decay, the usual litany of accusations...) then it can seem like social suicide to care too much, to share your unhappiness or great joy, to demand accountability from your peers who'll just turn to the next, more chill person.

I'm not saying everybody's like this, but I'm trying to offer some more insight into the sort of climate I find that pervades this campus, at the very least, and the same sort of expectations that interweave spaces in this city where folks meet and enjoy themselves. And for the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with hookup culture (I'd be a real hypocrite to think so), but I think clear communication can only improve interactions and save a lot of unhappy effort and broken hearts.

Edit: Also, regarding the difference between hookup/relationship culture, I think there's a sense by these authors (that I also share, at least for people my age) that hookup culture overwhelmingly dominates any space that could allow for "relationship culture," which I don't think the two are separate anyways. So to use the metaphor, it's not so much shopping for cars at the taxi stand as that the topography of the dating scene overwhelmingly looks like ONLY taxis, and you don't even know where to start to look for cars anymore, such that the process of even getting to the car dealership can be so frustrating and discouraging that you give up and just try taxis until one turns out to work for you. Or just give up entirely.


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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Sundancer spoke very articulately on the subject, so I'm just going to second what she said, both from my own observations, readings, and experiences. xP

Also, I find it a bit interesting that so many people had a fairly strong reaction against the article, whether it was because of the writing style or whatnot. I saw it as a personal account of dating scene negotiations and patterns observed, and I think the fact that those insecurities may be symptomatic of parts of modern dating. In these peoples' experiences, at least, and I've definitely had friends in RL complain about how [radio edit]ed up it is.

Speaking from my personal past, I've definitely noticed cases were slight disinterest gets much better results than earnest interest. Theoretically, it's probably because many people place higher value on hard-to-get things as opposed to things that are 'readily available' (psychology backs this up, people value what they have to work for more than what's offered to them for free). It's a weird psychological game, but yeah.
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Kiki
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Kiki Martius Chantico

Saturos
Apr 25 2016, 03:41 AM
Sundancer spoke very articulately on the subject, so I'm just going to second what she said, both from my own observations, readings, and experiences. xP

Also, I find it a bit interesting that so many people had a fairly strong reaction against the article, whether it was because of the writing style or whatnot. I saw it as a personal account of dating scene negotiations and patterns observed, and I think the fact that those insecurities may be symptomatic of parts of modern dating. In these peoples' experiences, at least, and I've definitely had friends in RL complain about how [radio edit]ed up it is.

Speaking from my personal past, I've definitely noticed cases were slight disinterest gets much better results than earnest interest. Theoretically, it's probably because many people place higher value on hard-to-get things as opposed to things that are 'readily available' (psychology backs this up, people value what they have to work for more than what's offered to them for free). It's a weird psychological game, but yeah.
For the the strong reaction to her article came from her voice and tone. She made herself out to be the victim who had an epiphany that nobody else has ever thought of. Sundancer made the point in a much more interesting way, that made it easy for an outsider like me to understand the problem being described. Not that I didn't understand the problem - but Sundancer made the case that this an issue of societal pressures better than this whiner did.
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Aevis Martius Ravi
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Origins

My old drinking buddy was pretty much this system, kind of a player, or he turned so after something traumatic happened with his ex-gf, anyhow. So I kind of understand the whole game deal, it's stupid. Pretty much just people going around and having casual sex with no strings attached, or that's my view of it as someone who doesn't date (or rather, more specifically, can't and haven't been able to in years due to life situations.)

Sounds to me like the girl in the article needs to find someone down to earth via her own intrests or hobbies instead of being caught up in the age of cancerous social media and engaged with people who have child-like attitudes towards realtionships.
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Momentime
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uh oh

Is this sort of culture really here because people are malicious or don't give a shit though? Like you said a lot of people in this culture are busy busy bees, they have to go to school, work, attend this, drive to there, etc. Like for me personally, between having schoolwork piled up and my job, and trying to watch my activity and diet so as to not finish being massively overweight, I just simply wouldn't have time for anything other than something casual, and I'm sure for many of my peers the same can be said. I could get a girlfriend and I could try to develop my sense of having someone else in my life, or I can work on securing my future and making sure I have food in my belly and a roof over my head.

Another thing is that with our social media tech and how easily people can connect, it's incredibly easy to meet someone new but also just as easy to drop them out of your life. So I'm actually not surprised at all that people have adapted a mild disinterest kind of attitude towards nearly everyone, as you never really know how long this new interaction will last. 15 minutes of fame also comes with 15 minutes of knowing this or that person even exists. With such a transient atmosphere, picking up this skill of being to hold on and then let go at a moment's notice is in my opinion an almost essential adaptation to the hookup environment. I don't think chill is used to let everyone know how cool and awesome you are (that shit's never gonna change, it's always going to be how much bling you can throw out. It's worked for millenia, it's worked for animals, it's working for us, and it's doing a damn fine job), it's to show that you recognize the situation you're in and are willing to shift accordingly.

I do think this is to some detriment though. Everyone always says "oh, if this or that person does blah blah blah I'll just drop them, I don't need that in my life!" yeah great but there's only so many people in your college town man. I've always lived in an urban area so technically I really could drop people out at the drop of a hat but I don't think that's very conductive. In my opinion this is waaaayyy too black and white and some skills being spent learning to compromise would be useful. Can't make co-workers drop out of your life easily, either.

Besides, showing you care instantly grabs people's attention. Just write a blog and people flock to it, no matter what it is (like how we're doing right now). idk how her social life is but I'd be willing to bet (not a lot b/c lol poor) if she went looking for whatever it is she wants she'd find it.
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