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Topic Started: Dec 19 2015, 10:11 AM (3,016 Views)
Saturos
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heart-under-blade

CrystalElemental
Dec 19 2015, 11:20 PM
Also, while I have this opportunity: Illya is the best character, I love her to death. I really liked F/SN's Caster. I really like Kirei too, though for odd reasons. I have a very strong attachment to characters who have no idea how to handle their own emotions, and Fate/Zero was basically just Kirei being confused about having feelings. I remember the exact moment I took a liking to him in the VN; in Heaven's Feel, there's a short side-skit where he's talking to his dying wife and she tells him he's crying, and his mindset is like "What, no, that's not what's happening here." It was a moment that I thought really did well for a visual novel, because they hid what he looked like so it was hard to tell who was lying. I just loved that scene so much...
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I literally cannot tell you how happy this makes me

Ilyasviel is definitely best character, probably one of my favourite ever. >.> literal perfection

F/SN Caster is fantastic as well, in my top three Fate characters.
spoilers for Caster's identity


Kirei in F/Z was pretty good, and I agree with you that he's great in HF. I decided I would try mapo tofu in his honour, and I eat it regularly nowadays.

Did you play Hollow Ataraxia yet?
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CrystalElemental
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Worthy
[ *  * ]
Saber is disgusting, 0/10, you failed.

That said even Nasu thinks he wrote Fate route badly (mainly Shirou) and says he'd do it differently if he did so today. Also yes, Ilya and Kirei are both great in Heaven's Feel. Saturos can fuzzy little man-peach Ilya and Caster with you though, I'm not interested in doing that.

Peytral
http://forum.templeofkraden.com/single/?p=8775538&t=7460956
Saturos
Dec 19 2015, 11:15 PM
The length for TitS is still one of the things I dread about getting back to it, especially since I know Second Chapter is hovering in the wings, like some fearful black hole of time
They don't take that long
They do for people that aren't obsessed.


Anyway with regards to Diamond is Unbreakable it's like JoJo's slice of life. It's got a lot more character focus than Stardust Crusaders, with most minor characters showing up at least one more time after their debut. It's still weird and fun like the previous parts but also it's pretty comfy. It's where Stands start to get crazier as well. Also Josuke is a top tier protagonist.[/quote]Well, at least the author knows the Fate route was bad. It's a shame you don't like the best characters, though. Shot in the dark, going to guess your favorite's Gilgamesh. You and my housemate would get along very well.

Okay, that's interesting. I can get behind that as a JoJo season premise. Though the phrase "Stands start to get crazier" fills me with dread and anticipation. We already had a Stand that was a boat, how much more ridiculous can we get?
Seoulbowz
Dec 19 2015, 11:34 PM
It's because her fans are annoying and she infringes on his favorite character's screentime.
Ah. That would do it then.
Edited by CrystalElemental, Dec 19 2015, 11:40 PM.
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Seoulbowz
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Supergeil

fwiw, he tells me there are other more "legitimate" reasons but those two are the vibe I always get.
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FrozenWrath
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Somebody

leaf
Dec 19 2015, 11:31 PM
FrozenWrath
Dec 19 2015, 11:27 PM
leaf
Dec 19 2015, 11:21 PM
FrozenWrath
Dec 19 2015, 11:11 PM
CrystalElemental
Dec 19 2015, 10:11 AM
Please talk to me about Touhou.
How do I play as Utsuho in 'soku?
You spam big bullets and her charge thing and hope the enemy isn't very good

She isn't very good against good players, but really strong against beginners
So I should stick with the character I know is semi-good. Or at least high-mid. Which still isn't good, and I should just learn Remi.

Maybe I can git gud instead
I mean, I can't really comment since I play iku and abuse her bs flight mechanic and downright godly j2a, so...

I'd just stick to a char you enjoy. Almost every character has unfair blockstrings in soku. You just have to set them up.
Oh god, Iku's j2a.

Yeah, the volatile and wild nature of Marisa best fits my playstyle. I'll stick to her, then.
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CrystalElemental
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Worthy
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Saturos
Dec 19 2015, 11:34 PM
CrystalElemental
Dec 19 2015, 11:20 PM
Also, while I have this opportunity: Illya is the best character, I love her to death. I really liked F/SN's Caster. I really like Kirei too, though for odd reasons. I have a very strong attachment to characters who have no idea how to handle their own emotions, and Fate/Zero was basically just Kirei being confused about having feelings. I remember the exact moment I took a liking to him in the VN; in Heaven's Feel, there's a short side-skit where he's talking to his dying wife and she tells him he's crying, and his mindset is like "What, no, that's not what's happening here." It was a moment that I thought really did well for a visual novel, because they hid what he looked like so it was hard to tell who was lying. I just loved that scene so much...
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I literally cannot tell you how happy this makes me

Ilyasviel is definitely best character, probably one of my favourite ever. >.> literal perfection

F/SN Caster is fantastic as well, in my top three Fate characters.
spoilers for Caster's identity


Kirei in F/Z was pretty good, and I agree with you that he's great in HF. I decided I would try mapo tofu in his honour, and I eat it regularly nowadays.

Did you play Hollow Ataraxia yet?
Illya's so good! How can anyone not love her? Either they didn't read the VN or there's just an irrational hatred for cute things. Caster was easily my favorite part of UBW. Her entire dynamic with Souichirou was fantastic. I love those two and was really upset with how their run ended. It was even more annoying post-Archer's identity reveal...

I have not read that, but it sounds like a thing I should do.

I can't handle spice too well, so probably not something I could pull off. Sounds like it's tasty, though. That's a plus.

I have not. I knew the name but didn't really know what it was. I assumed it was one of the many sort of spin-off things for the series. Something I should look into then?
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

*squees* I'm glad somebody else appreciates Ilya. Boyd does but he just has to hipster about it and be contrary

Yeah, Caster is the highlight of UBW for sure. Half the reason for enjoying Carnival Phantasm, the comedy spinoff, is to just see her and Souchirou being happy and sappy

Fate/Hollow Ataraxia is the "sequel" to F/SN that was finally translated. Parts of it are kinda subpar because there's a bunch of writers on it/it's not only Nasu, and the structure kind of handicaps it, but there's lots of great Ilya and Caster moments. Caster particularly gets a lot of focus
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CrystalElemental
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Worthy
[ *  * ]
Saturos
Dec 19 2015, 11:51 PM
*squees* I'm glad somebody else appreciates Ilya. Boyd does but he just has to hipster about it and be contrary

Yeah, Caster is the highlight of UBW for sure. Half the reason for enjoying Carnival Phantasm, the comedy spinoff, is to just see her and Souchirou being happy and sappy

Fate/Hollow Ataraxia is the "sequel" to F/SN that was finally translated. Parts of it are kinda subpar because there's a bunch of writers on it/it's not only Nasu, and the structure kind of handicaps it, but there's lots of great Ilya and Caster moments. Caster particularly gets a lot of focus
Ah. It's okay, Boyd. There is no shame to be had in liking Illya. Though it must be hard liking her and trying to justify Gilgamesh ripping her heart out you monster

I haven't seen Carnival Phantasm, but I've heard things. It sounds magical.

Ooooh, okay. I am completely on board for that. No such thing as too much Caster.
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Gilgamesh
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solbowz Aurarius

CrystalElemental
http://forum.templeofkraden.com/single/?p=8775547&t=7460956
Peytral
Dec 19 2015, 11:27 PM
CrystalElemental
Dec 19 2015, 11:20 PM
I think Saber is awesome
You might want to put a trigger warning on that for Boyd's sake.
Oh that's right, he's not a fan of Saber. If it's any consolation she's not my favorite Servant, but I do like her a lot. Do you mind if I ask why you don't like her?
Her personality is pretty bland and boring. She's also pretty bullheaded about her ideals which is fair enough in Stay Night since Shirou is just as bad so of course they'll clash, but then in Zero where, say, Gilgamesh or Alexander actually know what they're talking about it's annoying and grating. And then she's always right anyway. Even being wrong about her wish is just "oh you were right in what you originally did all along."

Her waifu elements are also pretty annoying, I literally do not care how cute you think she is, Nasu/Takeuchi, stop shoving her in my face.

Anyway even in-universe she gets shilled a little too much and especially lately she keeps getting buffed/made more important so she can be more perfect, she's very clearly a Creator's Pet and they're abusing it for all that's worth. One good example of that is suddenly being able to bypass Berserker's God Hand in the UBW anime only for it to work against Gate of Babylon. Lol, okay.

Also Saberclones are a dumb :nigel: trend just so Takeuchi can keep drawing his waifu and it's pretty disappointing to see that good, unique characters (Nero) can't even get their own design. They also retroactively cheapen the original as her own character (even if I don't like her, she is a character) and just degrade her to being a mascot. It makes me remember the original story less fondly.

And no, no, I really like Ilya and Kirei, but as you can see Saturos will not shut up about the former so it's hard. But yes, Gilgamesh is my favorite.

Seoulbowz
http://forum.templeofkraden.com/single/?p=8775549&t=7460956
It's because her fans are annoying and she infringes on his favorite character's screentime.
The former is true but shut up solbowz

Seriously though [radio edit] Saberfuzzy little man-peachs


As for Diamond is Unbreakable, I'd give you an example but I really think part of the fun is seeing the Stands blind. Araki decided to focus on crazy concepts instead of power levels unlike in Part 3, and it shows pretty quickly. Though there's still some of that lol
UBW, I'm only spoiling this because I'm sure Satty will yell at me if I don't even though I'm sure everyone that cares knows already
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

I actually think the Saber, Rider, and Archer debate around kingship ideals is pretty fantastic in F/Z and well-balanced, and it's not really proven or given to advantage any one side as a whole

Haha, are you really still mad about the God Hand thing?


You should watch Carnival Phantasm! It's really silly, basically a crossover thing between Fate and Tsukihime. I watched it without knowing Tsukihime, but still appreciated it a lot. It's pretty short, too!
The opening is also the most catchy thing ever
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Gilgamesh
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solbowz Aurarius

Gilgamesh tells her that her path is right and she should stick to it. Alexander is only mad because she regrets her past. Eventually, she doesn't. He'd have respected her just fine if he met her post-Fate route.

Also I will never stop being mad
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CrystalElemental
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Worthy
[ *  * ]
Gilgamesh
Dec 19 2015, 11:56 PM
Her personality is pretty bland and boring. She's also pretty bullheaded about her ideals which is fair enough in Stay Night since Shirou is just as bad so of course they'll clash, but then in Zero where, say, Gilgamesh or Alexander actually know what they're talking about it's annoying and grating. And then she's always right anyway. Even being wrong about her wish is just "oh you were right in what you originally did all along."

Her waifu elements are also pretty annoying, I literally do not care how cute you think she is, Nasu/Takeuchi, stop shoving her in my face.

Anyway even in-universe she gets shilled a little too much and especially lately she keeps getting buffed/made more important so she can be more perfect, she's very clearly a Creator's Pet and they're abusing it for all that's worth. One good example of that is suddenly being able to bypass Berserker's God Hand in the UBW anime only for it to work against Gate of Babylon. Lol, okay.

Also Saberclones are a dumb :nigel: trend just so Takeuchi can keep drawing his waifu and it's pretty disappointing to see that good, unique characters (Nero) can't even get their own design. They also retroactively cheapen the original as her own character (even if I don't like her, she is a character) and just degrade her to being a mascot. It makes me remember the original story less fondly.

And no, no, I really like Ilya and Kirei, but as you can see Saturos will not shut up about the former so it's hard. But yes, Gilgamesh is my favorite.

Seoulbowz
http://forum.templeofkraden.com/single/?p=8775549&t=7460956
It's because her fans are annoying and she infringes on his favorite character's screentime.
The former is true but shut up solbowz

Seriously though [radio edit] Saberfuzzy little man-peachs


As for Diamond is Unbreakable, I'd give you an example but I really think part of the fun is seeing the Stands blind. Araki decided to focus on crazy concepts instead of power levels unlike in Part 3, and it shows pretty quickly. Though there's still some of that lol
UBW, I'm only spoiling this because I'm sure Satty will yell at me if I don't even though I'm sure everyone that cares knows already
UBW, I'm only spoiling this because I'm sure Satty will yell at me if I don't even though I'm sure everyone that cares knows already
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Gilgamesh
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solbowz Aurarius

God Hand makes it so that none of Saber's regular strikes should even hurt Berserker (you need A rank attacks and Saber's Strength stat is B under Shirou), but she's clearly drawing blood. That can't really be dismissed as "oh it doesn't REALLY hurt him if it's just a scratch" when Gate of Babylon did nothing at all as it was supposed to (until Gilgamesh used A rank weapons, that is).

Also yeah you got it right, she killed him with Invisible Air, a C rank Noble Phantasm. And then Archer's Caladbolg, an A rank Noble Phantasm, didn't do shit.

And then Ilya still called Saber boring and Archer interesting just like in the visual novel, what the [radio edit] ufotable
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CrystalElemental
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Worthy
[ *  * ]
Gilgamesh
Dec 20 2015, 12:13 AM
God Hand makes it so that none of Saber's regular strikes should even hurt Berserker (you need A rank attacks and Saber's Strength stat is B under Shirou), but she's clearly drawing blood. That can't really be dismissed as "oh it doesn't REALLY hurt him if it's just a scratch" when Gate of Babylon did nothing at all as it was supposed to (until Gilgamesh used A rank weapons, that is).

Also yeah you got it right, she killed him with Invisible Air, a C rank Noble Phantasm. And then Archer's Caladbolg, an A rank Noble Phantasm, didn't do shit.

And then Ilya still called Saber boring and Archer interesting just like in the visual novel, what the [radio edit] ufotable
The regular strikes drawing scratches was something I sort of waved off as them wanting to make the fight seem more intense. It didn't bother me that there was minor damage, as long as there was nothing lasting. The Invisible Air thing was ludicrous though. I had assumed Caladbolg got a kill as well, but can't really remember how the anime handled it. If it really did nothing, then that's even worse. Given the rules of how Berserker's Phantasm functions, that's a little egregious.
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Yeah, in the VN it's Archer's arrow that finally breaches God Hand, whereas it does jack all in the anime. >_>

I assume they were using Hammer of the Wind God in the anime, not quite just the Invisible Air part, but I don't know if that retains the same ranking as the vacuum spell its used from.

Either way, a bit of poor adapting on Ufotable's part, but at least it was only relevant for that one episode.
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

CrystalElemental
Dec 19 2015, 11:45 PM
Illya's so good! How can anyone not love her?
Well, I don't, because superpowered emotionless/sociopathic little girls are inherently awful.
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Dracobolt
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Incorrigible

Hence your dislike of Homura.

:mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn:
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Ilya is definitely not emotionless >_>
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

Dracobolt
Dec 20 2015, 01:56 AM
Hence your dislike of Homura.

:mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn:
Funny enough, now that you mention it, that's probably a contributing factor.

Didn't mean to suggest Ilya is emotionless, just that that's a common trait for that character type so I was grouping them together.
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CrystalElemental
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Worthy
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The Phantom Squee
http://forum.templeofkraden.com/single/?p=8775603&t=7460956
CrystalElemental
Dec 19 2015, 11:45 PM
Illya's so good! How can anyone not love her?
Well, I don't, because superpowered emotionless/sociopathic little girls are inherently awful.


I wish I were joking about this, but I love that archetype. Though if they go that route, I want something to explain it. I think it's boring if the character is just like that by default. Give me some kind of backstory to explain how this character's worldview got so dark, and why they're so morally bankrupt. Note: explain, not justify. I want to know why they are the way they are, but they're still awful people. I think they can be great, but people need to treat them as they type of character they are. Nothing's worse than when fans try to justify and excuse awful behavior because the character's history is sad.

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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

That was an eminently reasonable response.

To be fair, I'm mostly exaggerating my dislike for the sake of my e-persona. Really I just find that archetype tiresome. And you're right, it's almost entirely down to execution--I just have yet to see it done in a way that struck me as more than a cheap play for sympathy (look how ~tragique~ her life was to make her like this! (ignoring that children have impressive mental plasticity and can recover from most tragedy much better than adults can)), edginess (she can mow down crowds of people and doesn't even care that she's covered in blood!), or a facsimile of maturity. In the end I just think Ilya's not particularly interesting because she seems like a rehash that's been done to death. I play it up more because it gets under Satty's skin.

Also agreed, defending characters who do awful things because they have a sympathetic backstory is dumb. Looking at you, Avengers fans.
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