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| Opinions on an article about videogame writing | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 23 2015, 02:00 PM (1,617 Views) | |
| The Phantom Squee | Sep 23 2015, 09:26 PM Post #21 |
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"
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I'm not saying his statement was completely wrong, just that his methodology and approach to it are flawed--and that a game having instances of bigotry in it isn't the same thing as the game being bigoted. I believe he cited Far Cry there, for instance; if I recall correctly, there was some outcry about FC4 being "racist" because its cover art depicted a light-skinned man in a position of clear dominance over a darker-skinned man. As I understand it, the character in question is the game's antagonist, and racism was in fact a trait of his in-game, one very much portrayed as a negative. That's what I'm referring to here, that kind of broad generalization about a game being bigoted because it contains bigotry, without regard for context, and that's what I'm seeing in that section of the article. |
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| Saturos | Sep 23 2015, 09:46 PM Post #22 |
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heart-under-blade
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Ah, okay. So, you're talking about a game consciously using a racist/sexist/queerphobic thing in order to criticize it? And then some critics taking only that part in order to call the game itself flawed? Looking at the Far Cry cover, I can definitely understand why there might've been a bit of a protest. I think, game aside, in terms of marketing I could see how that might appeal to racist sensibilities. But I haven't played the game, so anything I said about its content would either be speculation or secondhand. The other thing is that sometimes a game might attempt satire, but satire is tricky to do. A lot of the times, if the thing being satirized isn't done so effectively, it ends up pretty much just upholding or using what it was trying to criticize. |
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| Crash | Sep 23 2015, 09:49 PM Post #23 |
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!
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While the game itself may or may not treat the subject with more nuance, I still think the Far Cry 4 box art is problematic. Even if the game portrays him negatively, that box art is doing its absolute best to glorify him and make him look cool:![]() And sure, in-game it may be that he gets portrayed negatively, and perhaps the game explores racial subjugation in a meaningful way. (Never played FC4, but considering the way FC3 heavily leaned on stereotypes and "mystic negro" and White Savior narratives, I doubt it.) I do know that he's also not white; he's a native of that country but mixed-race. But consider that the purpose of box art is to make your game enticing to those who have never heard of it before and might just stumble across it at GameStop or whatever. That person doesn't have any of the context that the game provides, all they see is a light-skinned dude using a dark-skinned guy on his knees as an armrest, and the guy has a live grenade in his hand. That is what Ubisoft wanted to use to attract people to this game. |
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| ShinyGirafarig | Sep 23 2015, 09:50 PM Post #24 |
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Giraffes are adorable.
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This is why I mainly play games where the main threats are things like "bananas have been stolen, get them back." Little room for disappointment. |
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| The Phantom Squee | Sep 23 2015, 10:03 PM Post #25 |
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"
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Sure, and I'm not saying it's without issue. I'm only criticizing the tendency to dismiss the entire thing as racist (or whichever, as the case may be) and be done with it. It's an oversimplification that shuts down discourse instead of encouraging it by slapping a label in a place where it might not be accurate, and sending the message that, by extension, if you like thing you must be a bigot as well. It just alienates the middle ground, which is totally unhelpful. |
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| Crash | Sep 23 2015, 10:31 PM Post #26 |
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!
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I didn't see people saying the WHOLE game was racist when this controversy came out. The game wasn't even out for several more months. That's actually another issue in games criticism that happens all the time: a critic says that some aspect of a game is racist/sexist/etc, or even just low quality, and people instantly interpret that as them saying that the entire work, and anyone who likes it, is racist/sexist/low quality/etc. A lot of critics, or at least the ones I pay attention to, have moved way beyond saying "This work is racist" in favor of "this aspect of this work is racist." And, just the same, avoiding "this work is feminist" in favor of "these aspects of this work are feminist." |
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| Saturos | Sep 23 2015, 10:37 PM Post #27 |
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Right, I think if some people (which I don't think this article writer is doing) make the case that if you like something with racist/sexist/homophobic elements, you yourself are therefore the same, that might be unfounded. But I also think that refusing to acknowledge racist/sexist/homophobic elements as such is also a problem. Going back to the article specifically that's under discussion, I don't think smugness/nihilism is sufficient grounds to dismiss satire. There can be a radical split from politics the institution without going into nihilism. Likewise, I don't think a political science engagement with government is necessary to write about social issues in games. I think the terms on "politicization" and "depoliticization" in games themselves are a bit flawed, since it links "social issues" to politics, as if it were merely a partisan issue. Knowledge of social realities is definitely a benefit when making games that deal with said realities, though. Like Silvy said with regards to his games in particular, the article writer is using a limited sample size in that case... if he only has five such games. >_> |
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| Saturos | Sep 23 2015, 11:11 PM Post #28 |
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Deleted the post, but you should probably watch your language a bit, Gnik, that was uncalled for. |
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| Aevis Martius Ravi | Sep 23 2015, 11:20 PM Post #29 |
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Origins
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I never saw the cover to Farcry 4 but did watch a full playthrough of the game. The cover is racist out of context, merely due to its suggestive nature. As far as I remember Pagan (white haired guy) did use Kyrat as a whole, the land to produce drugs and grow an empire but racism wasn't much of a factor. The people were affected simply because they lived there. He's tyranical, manical, oddly enough mild mannered towards the protagonist (the dark skinned guy on the cover) until said protagonist started to interfere with Pagan's plans. I suppose it is racism in the form of exploitation but regardless of who was there Pagan would have occupied Kyrat, regardless of occupants, because it was vulnerable. But yeah, I agree with consensus that something is not racist merely because it contains elements of it. Also, Satty, perhaps your suggestion will be tomorrow's poll, if that okay with you. Though perhaps "What is your ideal game" makes it more clear? I dunno. |
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| Saturos | Sep 23 2015, 11:31 PM Post #30 |
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Yeah, go for it, Aevis! For the poll idea. Just echoing Crash that critics (or any worth their salt) have generally moved beyond discussing aspects of a work without talking about the work itself. I haven't seen the game, Aevis, so instead I'll ask you some questions: a) Why was Kryat chosen as the setting? b) Does the vulnerability of Kryat have to do with the vulnerability of its inhabitants? c) If it is racism out of exploitation, but it would've worked for any setting, do you think it's significant that it was set in Kryat anyway? d) Squee said that racism was a big part of the antagonist's character. Did you see any of that in the game? I think it's useful to consider that even if the cover was "suggestively" racist, that's still basically the definition of "racism" often used when discussing media. Like the original article says, there's definitely degrees always at work here. And game covers are generally meant to be taken out-of-context; like Crash said, that's how they're made to be presented on store shelves. |
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| Aevis Martius Ravi | Sep 23 2015, 11:55 PM Post #31 |
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Origins
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a) Honestly not sure on that one. b) Yes, to a degree, they were in the midst of conflicts between two factions, I believe. I think it was also in a poor state, regardless. c) I don't think. I know he had issues with his father, and hated him, I don't think it ever revealed the father's race, though. All of it could be tied to father issues because Pagan wasn't happy with what he recieved after his death and wanted more. d) It's possible there was in dialogue out of Pagan, but I don't specifically recall it if there was any. He was typically a nice guy (even in one of the endings) for a murderous user, lol. So at least in motivation, from what I recall, he wasn't that racist. That makes sense, the cover is the 'face' of the game after all. |
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| gnik drazil | Sep 24 2015, 01:28 AM Post #32 |
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The sun no longer sets me free
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oh my, you were offended. what a surprise. |
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| Saturos | Sep 24 2015, 01:35 AM Post #33 |
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heart-under-blade
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If you're "offended" by these kinds of discussions, Gnik, you can always leave or not click the topic. No one's forcing you to read them. And that goes for what we think is "offensive" or not, too: if you find our rules and moderations offensive to you, you can always leave. |
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| Crash | Sep 24 2015, 02:19 AM Post #34 |
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!
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I'd bet that Saturos was not offended by your words (we've dealt with worse here over ten years), he was more likely contemptuous of them. |
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| King in the North | Sep 24 2015, 06:22 AM Post #35 |
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I haven't played FC4 and don't know much about the character but I take it he's a cruel evil [radio edit]ing bastard? And people get angry when a cruel evil [radio edit]ing bastard is portrayed as a cruel evil [radio edit]ing bastard (racist etc)? Fill me up on this controversy please. |
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| ShmittlesThePoe | Sep 24 2015, 09:23 AM Post #36 |
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Pirate Wavemaster
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Just finished reading the article. woooooooow I mean, I liked his comments on Functional Characters and "token" adult content to an extent, but other than that, it was a mixed bag of mostly crap, and highly opinionated at that. |
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| HyrulianJedi | Sep 24 2015, 03:38 PM Post #37 |
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uguu~
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I was pretty amused at how you were whining about people whining, honestly. |
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| gnik drazil | Sep 24 2015, 04:10 PM Post #38 |
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The sun no longer sets me free
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i'm disappointed, yet that's exactly what i expected |
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