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SSB: Women, Men, & Gaming; I will make the topic
Topic Started: Sep 6 2014, 09:34 AM (14,617 Views)
Nell
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The Pretender
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Nintendo statement says she was terminated for holding a second job.

The Kotaku article also raises the question of why Nintendo didn't protect her from (job-related) harassment (or whether they should have).
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Momentime
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uh oh

I think it was a bit of both. Nintendo may have just turned a blind eye to her past comments (who seriously looks at 2012 tweets), but when some people brought it to Nintendo's attention they probably decided it's better safe than sorry. You're right, maybe if she had another account which she used for her political life she still would have her job, but you never know.

Also she hates on rap which is absolutely despicable Kappa
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

I can't view Imgur right now but, there's a few tweets I've read screencapped that are preeetty bad. Apparently her thesis also makes unclear sometimes whether she's talking about hentai or actual child pornography, and she seems to express 'disappointment' in one tweet over someone being arrested for possessing actual child pornography.

I'm aware that twitter screencaps can easily be faked, but a biturl link to an article contemporary to the date the tweet was posted is pretty hard to fake.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2016/03/30/controversy-erupts-over-nintendo-employees-termination.aspx
Allison Rapp herself linked this article on her Twitter, which seems to be a bit more fair and balanced. And apparently Nintendo DOES allow moonlighting/second jobs, according to Rapp, and she used a pseudonym in her second job anyway.

Another takeaway: always be careful what you post on social media or in public places. >_>
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Jenn-uh
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hunny bunchkins sugarcube lettuce chamomile sweetie pumpkin schnitzel fries

I know an Allison Rapp irl, so reading this has been surreal.
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Marinus
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Saturos
Mar 30 2016, 09:26 PM
I can't view Imgur right now but, there's a few tweets I've read screencapped that are preeetty bad. Apparently her thesis also makes unclear sometimes whether she's talking about hentai or actual child pornography, and she seems to express 'disappointment' in one tweet over someone being arrested for possessing actual child pornography.

I'm aware that twitter screencaps can easily be faked, but a biturl link to an article contemporary to the date the tweet was posted is pretty hard to fake.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2016/03/30/controversy-erupts-over-nintendo-employees-termination.aspx
Allison Rapp herself linked this article on her Twitter, which seems to be a bit more fair and balanced. And apparently Nintendo DOES allow moonlighting/second jobs, according to Rapp, and she used a pseudonym in her second job anyway.

Another takeaway: always be careful what you post on social media or in public places. >_>
Unfortunately, there's no context for text on the Internet, so her detractors take the comments at face value. Regardless of actual meaning, they point to it as indisputable fact.

After reading the linked article, the whole mess becomes even more suspicious. While I totally get N wouldn't want a "cam-girl" working for them and their "family" image, if Rapp's tweets are to be believed, the Nintendo wrongfully fired her, (or at least lied about why) and that without the the GG dirt-digging, they probably wouldn't have found out.
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Crash
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!

Yeah, it seems likely that the second job was modeling/selling photo sets. Even under a pseudonym I can see Nintendo disapproving enough to fire. And WA is an at-will employment state so they actually don't need any reason at all if they wanted her gone after all of this. Unfortunate situation all around; I think "the answer is somewhere in the middle"/"both sides are wrong" positions are stupid most of the time, but here it really does seem like lots of mistakes made on both her part and Nintendo's. Ultimately though it comes down to two things: our culture and the game industry's intense fear of sex-positivity and any kind of female sexual agency, and the internet hate mob who constantly need targets to harass in their culture war. Without these two things, Alison would still be employed at Nintendo today. Be sure to read her recent tweets about how to make things better.
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Momentime
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uh oh

Idk dude, have you seen some of her tweets? I'm all for sex positivity, hell teens probably need it the most, but the thing is that line can get very blurry and cross into tweens and younger, which I'm not cool with. I personally don't agree with lowering the age of consent to 13, if that's what she's implying. Furthermore, I'm not sure what she thinks goes into the production of CP, but I imagine it's not a pretty thing.
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HyrulianJedi
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uguu~
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Saturos
Mar 30 2016, 09:26 PM
and she seems to express 'disappointment' in one tweet over someone being arrested for possessing actual child pornography.
Honestly, this is one of those situations that I think her intent was lost in a poorly worded tweet.

The story she was commenting on was about how burglars broke into someone's house, discovered CP, then anonymously reported it to the authorities, who arrested the guy. Had the situation not been about CP, I very much imagine there would be a potent legal defense and possible public outcry about the capacity for the state to obtain warrants on illegally gained information. And I think that is closer to what her point was: that society will often turn a blind eye to rules and justify any action when CP is involved.

It's a rendition of the privacy vs security discussion, but framed in a context relevant to her history of research. But, as it turns out, some arguments really need more than 140 characters to make their point clearly.

On the subject of her moonlighting job, I expect that Nintendo is using that as a means to both satisfy those calling for her firing, in order to maintain their family image, but also stave off the mass protests such a firing would bring about by providing a "legitimate" reason for firing her. It may have even been something discussed closely with Rapp, and been a quiet agreement between them - or so the fairly peaceful response from her about it makes me think.
Realtalk though:

A lot of Rapp's comments/arguments are focused not on promoting CP, but on refusing the notion that children (noticeably when defined as <18) and sexuality should never be considered in the same thought. Which is still a significant issue in the US - you need to look no further than the state of sex ed in public schools to see that.

It's a bit ironic that her arguments against pedo-hysteria are, in fact, drowned out by pedo-hysteria, preventing any actual discussion about them. There are similar problems on the other half of the situation, when discussing pedophiles - any argument posed that can be seen as defending or supporting a pedophile in any way is untouchable simply because of the reaction to it.
Edited by HyrulianJedi, Mar 31 2016, 12:44 AM.
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ShmittlesThePoe
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Pirate Wavemaster
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I'm generally all for insisting on overall context and taking cut-out quotes worth a grain of salt, but people need to realize the potential consequences of standing up on a digital podium and talking about VERY sensitive subjects, knowing full well who and what people may think the person represents. Even if proper context for half the stuff she talked about exists, public social media was an improper and downright irresponsible venue for it. It's well within any business's best interest to remove someone like that, ESPECIALLY after some obnoxious people chose to put the spotlight on her.
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HyrulianJedi
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uguu~
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Oh yeah, no argument there. Not only is Twitter a shitty place for the discussion she wants to have because of its limited nature, but her position as a public representative more or less demands that she can't associate directly with that discussion.
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Phoenix7
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~

I think it's an awful situation all round. I definitely sympathise for the harassment she endured because of GG, but at the same time Nintendo's reason for firing her is perfectly valid. (Second jobs are allowed, but not when it causes a conflict of interest as it seems to here.) I just hope she's able to land on her feet in the long run.
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Yeah, from my understanding, she was participating in that discussion prior to her gig at Nintendo, so it should be fine, but...

Yeah, Twitter is really not a good place to discuss stuff like that. I think sensitive topics can and should be discussed on social media, but in a way that recognizes both the limitations of the media and accommodates for the topic being discussed.

That being said, we should also talk about how Nintendo barred her from talking about rape culture a month after hiring her. >_> Because it could "blow up."
So in other words, Nintendo is all for diversity when it doesn't threaten the status quo???
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HyrulianJedi
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uguu~
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I mean, I think that ties into the public/private image. I don't think Nintendo, given its general image, wants to get its name dragged into a public argument (among private individuals) about rape culture (of all things) - which may be a blanket policy for a lot of things, given that her opinion could potentially be seen as officially endorsed.

I don't really see Nintendo as the kind of company to really have a public opinion on a subject like that, but to exert their opinion through choices made with their games (such as, say, removing overt sexual elements during the localization of a game) - if there even is one. It's a fairly controversial topic, and Nintendo is not a single person, so I imagine there would be disagreements about how to handle it, and very likely not a strong consensus.

Rape culture in particular is something that's difficult to take a stance on as a company, because of its subconscious influence, wide range of effects, nebulous definition. It's a very different thing than, say, embracing same-sex relationships, because part of what makes rape culture so controversial is simply identifying what does and doesn't contribute to it.

Given that, it's no wonder they told her to avoid the subject - which, again, is pretty standard for anyone who can be seen as having some kind of authority to speak for a company.
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Nell
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The Pretender
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Granted it was a damned-if-you-do situation for Nintendo as soon as she started getting attention - fire her (for whatever reason, "legitimate" or not - and I'd forgotten that so many places in the US still have shitty employment laws, so take legitimate for what little value it has) and get backlash from one side; keep her on and get backlash from the other. But the action they took seems to be the worst of both worlds. I realise it's not easy for them to just up and decide to take a stand, but as in most situations like this, hedging their bets hasn't really gotten them any ground.

It's unfortunately true that we live in a world where posting opinions on the internet comes with the accepted risk of being taken to extreme lengths over it many years in the future. And perhaps I'm particularly sensitive to it because I do a lot of WHS and workplace behaviour stuff at work, but I'm inclined to think that Nintendo should have done more to stand up for her way back when.
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HyrulianJedi
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uguu~
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Re: status quo

Basically, yes, as is almost any company that aims to turn a profit each quarter. You will rarely see one buck the status quo unless it is already shifting in that direction - look at Nintendo's allowance of implementation of same-sex relationships into games.
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Momentime
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uh oh

Saturos
Mar 31 2016, 02:17 AM
That being said, we should also talk about how Nintendo barred her from talking about rape culture a month after hiring her. >_> Because it could "blow up."
So in other words, Nintendo is all for diversity when it doesn't threaten the status quo???
Does this surprise you? Changing the status quo isn't Nintendo's goal, it's to make money. You don't make money by dipping your toes into something like rape culture. And when you say Nintendo should defend her, what kind of defense should it be? I'd say release a clarifying statement saying she had no involvement in the localization, but anything further is a no go.
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Crash
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!

Maybe publicly state that they oppose harassment campaigns and will not alter their games at those groups' whims, that they stand by their employee, that they will continue to work to make games more welcoming, that nobody deserves the level of scrutiny she received, that no one person can nor should be blamed for any localization decisions you disagree with, that removing or altering content is part and parcel of localization work, that the person in question isn't even on the localization team, etc
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UltaFlame
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Thanks Poui.

But that draws them into the mire of participating in the dialogue of the issue at hand. Which is primarily a political arena and I doubt Nintendo wants to actively put itself into politics. It makes games and it profits off of making games. Any statement of such that they'd release would be a direct statement of company policy and directly reflective of the views of the company, which could quite possibly come back to bite them later.
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Crash
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!

Harassment being bad is not a political issue!

This is the lie these groups are trying to trap people in. That it's a political issue with "sides," and that you're not being fair if you don't give both "sides" equal say. But there aren't sides. You don't have to take an "in-between" stance for fear of looking political. You can call harassment for what it is, because it's plain as day to everyone.

You can see where Nintendo DID issue a statement that they oppose the harassment Rapp received, but only months after it started, by which point she had already been fired. So they're obviously not opposed to saying something, they were just too afraid to do it until they were basically forced to for fear of looking even worse.
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Kula Diamond
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atlus tracts

me whenever this kind of drama shows up

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