Temple of Kraden News:
| Greetings, heathen. Perhaps some fortuitous blessing of Kraden's grace hath led you to our humble Temple, or perhaps you are simply curious about this strange and wonderful cult. Should you be willing - and dare to hope - to achieve enlightenment, the door opens before you. Lo! Leave your old life behind! For once you step through, you become something more than just yourself. You become a Kradenette. Are you willing to make the rapturous plunge? Do you have what it takes? One of us! One of us! One of us! Already one of us? Make your presence known: |
| SSB: Women, Men, & Gaming; I will make the topic | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 6 2014, 09:34 AM (14,618 Views) | |
| UltaFlame | Mar 5 2016, 08:46 AM Post #241 |
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Thanks Poui.
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Fates removed the "Face petting" aspect of inviting people from your army to your personal bedroom(I mean why would you involve that in the first place I don't understand) and in addition, changed a few characters (Most importantly to the argument, probably, is that a female character who is, as I recall, a lesbian had in her japanese supports with a male avatar a scene where the avatar gave her a drink but didn't tell her that it was spiced to make her see men as women and women as men - I mean, like, it changed what her eyes perceived and made men look like women and women look like men - and that after the scene, she was able to marry a man. In the translation, that whole thing was removed because, again, why was it even there in the first place) and removed some revealing outfits from the accessory system which would let your entire army battle and fight in their -underwear- Like I mean, literally wearing nothing but trunks or a bra and panties, depending on the character's sex. That's about the extent of the "desexualization" of FE Fates as I understand it and so far as I'm concerned, they're all logical changes, mostly removing things that were completely unnecessary to begin with. From a Fanservice standpoint, I suppose removing those accessories wasn't necessary, since you can still occasionally see the model in that degree of undress, just not actively out in battle. The aggressive side of this issue continues to be confusing and disappointing to me and that article just made me feel sad. I don't want to get within a mile of anyone active in those circles' interest, but all the same, I can't approve of any of the drama these people cause. |
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| Hisui | Mar 5 2016, 08:59 AM Post #242 |
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Seccy "no fun allowed" Secundum
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All I got from that article was trolls be trolling, their translators can't speak Japanese, and it's ultimately Nintendo's fault for shitty localisations. |
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| Kiki | Mar 5 2016, 09:25 AM Post #243 |
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Kiki Martius Chantico
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shitty localizations according to who? some people feel that the goal of localization is to recreate the japanese game in english as authentically as possible, but most companies opt for the "adapt the game to the culture of a different market in order to sell the most copies." judging by the success of Fates, that doesn't seem to be a failure. shitty localizations according to who? some people feel that the goal of localization is to recreate the japanese game in english as authentically as possible, but most companies opt for the "adapt the game to the culture of a different market in order to sell the most copies." judging by the success of Fates, that doesn't seem to be a failure. Edited by Kiki, Mar 5 2016, 09:25 AM.
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| Crash | Mar 5 2016, 09:34 AM Post #244 |
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!
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Also, it's not like that guy was the only localizer for an entire project. He was probably an editor along with a team of other people who can speak Japanese |
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| Saturos | Mar 5 2016, 09:57 AM Post #245 |
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heart-under-blade
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I think you misread the article, Seccy - one localizer four years ago couldn't speak Japanese. And... I'm not sure you read the article at all, or at least, you really missed the point. |
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| Hisui | Mar 5 2016, 10:03 AM Post #246 |
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Seccy "no fun allowed" Secundum
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Oh, I read all the bits about trolls attacking someone who was nothing to do with it, but that always happens-it's hardly news (and yes, I DO recognise that the fact that it IS so commonplace is an issue). |
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| HyrulianJedi | Mar 5 2016, 10:48 AM Post #247 |
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uguu~
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I'm absolutely not defending these actions, and was already criticizing these attacks on Rapp (before the conversation expanded into an area I didn't want to waste time arguing in), but there are definitely legitimate complaints about the localization. Not in the vein of "muh perfect japanese translation" but in weak translations via details that never make it over and significantly less focus and time on important subjects, creating shallow relationships and writing. Things that aren't related to the transition between countries and don't improve or change context to suit other cultures. It is the prerogative of the localization team to change things to suit the target country, but it's also the prerogative of the audience to point out where those changes were unnecessary or detrimental to the story, and it's something being repeated with Bravely Second right now - not in the redesigns of characters, but in issues with branching events, where several endings to things are being removed entirely. There's been a lot of people that have been getting annoyed that their issues with the writing of the localization have been getting characterized as being mad that they can't pet their real little sister, but Fates' issues go deeper than that. And ignoring those issues exacerbates this one, because people then start to see attacks like this as more legitimate, more effective, and that sentiment can grow - and it's a dangerous sentiment to let grow. |
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| Kiki | Mar 5 2016, 01:07 PM Post #248 |
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Kiki Martius Chantico
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ahh, I did not realize it went deeper than a few of the sexual and lesbian-drugging related changes in FE. I guess a lot of us are getting caught up on that half of the issues. That is too bad that the west was cheapened out of some good storytelling. |
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| Crash | Mar 5 2016, 01:58 PM Post #249 |
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!
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Building off of HJ's last paragraph a bit, some of the criticisms of the translation are totally valid, but here's the thing: there would have NEVER been this much scrutiny and outright meanness about this game's translation without recent outcries of "censorship" from Gamergate types concerning a bunch of other games prior to this. Fire Emblem fans have known for years that many support conversations, characterizations, names, etc. have been changed in every single FE localization. People with the knowledge generally will point things out, and those who are interested can read up on it. There's no reason that this one in particular would have gotten any more attention over it than the past games have. But because GG already has this narrative of SJW censorship over the past several years they have to keep finding new targets (read:women) to attack when everyone stops caring about the previous ones. |
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| Peytral | Mar 5 2016, 02:13 PM Post #250 |
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peytral pls
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My favorite thing about Fates is that you have the dumb GG crowd who won't shut the [radio edit] up about memes and censorship or whatever and take every single localization choice as a personal offense, and the people who reflexively defend and love every single localization choice just because GG hates it. It basically guarantees that people are going to keep fighting over it until the next Fire Emblem game comes out. |
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| Crash | Mar 5 2016, 04:07 PM Post #251 |
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!
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Notice how Project X Zone 2 has an extremely liberal translation but is receiving zero complaints about it. There's a reason certain people suddenly care so much about Fire Emblem's translation, and it's because of the "censorship" of the My Castle features and their need to prove that SJW influence has ruined the game. I can't say that I like every change. Changing that shitty assassin conversation into a series of ellipses was a great change though. The original conversation restated the same shit like four times, and also was a bad case of an "As you know," conversation where characters are telling each other things that both already know, just for the sake of the audience. |
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| HyrulianJedi | Mar 5 2016, 04:28 PM Post #252 |
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uguu~
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Sure, part of it is due to the outrage crowd, but part of it is also likely due simply to the fact that the outrage crowd did, at least, provide that information. The means of actually looking up the actual translation of Japanese game text is pretty difficult, unless you know both languages. It generally takes someone who is willing to put in that effort who has the knowledge. So yes, while I don't think the issues with the localization would be a thing without the outrage crowd, the actual publication of that information is the source of the non-outraged issue, and likely fueled by significant spread of that information. Before, if you wanted to know the differences between the Japanese and English versions of FE, you had to look it up. Right now, because of the other drama with it, the writing issues have been brought into a significantly more public light than before, and been exposed to a lot more people - both GG people and not. |
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| Kula Diamond | Mar 5 2016, 04:54 PM Post #253 |
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atlus tracts
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wouldn't it be better to change it to a non-shitty assassin conversation? :p |
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| Sundancer | Mar 23 2016, 01:39 AM Post #254 |
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Stargazer
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Found this to be an interesting and important viewpoint related to gendered labour/devaluation of sex work & work that is connoted to be somehow sexual in nature, in relation to the Microsoft GDC party though I admit not being terribly up-to-date on what's been going on otherwise with that. |
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| Crash | Mar 23 2016, 08:12 AM Post #255 |
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!
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I saw that yesterday. I don't disagree with anything the author says about how the dancers should and shouldn't be treated, but she misses the point that dancers, even if dressed more tastefully, weren't really an appropriate choice for the event to begin with. Literally ever year this happens at GDC from -some- company and every year (for at least as long as I've been paying attention to it, so like 5 or 6 years) there is a backlash from it. Because of the already-caustic environment the gaming industry has towards women, any entertainment like this directed towards the male gaze just reinforces that it's an industry by men and for the enjoyment of men only. This is the first time I can remember that it was from one of the big three, rather than a smaller gaming-related company. You'd think they'd have their finger on the pulse of what's going on better. Maybe this would have been acceptable if the invitation made clear that dancers would be present, but no, this is what they gave out: ![]() |
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| Nell | Mar 30 2016, 07:25 PM Post #256 |
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The Pretender
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http://kotaku.com/nintendo-employee-terminated-after-smear-campaign-over-1768100368 (via Bowz's Twitter) Someone else has linked this article, but it's blocked on my work computer so I can't read it, presumably because Playboy: http://www.playboy.com/articles/today-nintendo-fired-a-woman-for-being-viciously-harassed |
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| Asphodel | Mar 30 2016, 07:31 PM Post #257 |
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Electric Indigo
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"Gamergate chose to interpret [Rapp's essay] as Rapp holding views that support child pornography, even if she had actually argued to introduce stronger laws against child exploitation." Because of course they did. Awful. And doubly awful that this "win" for GG will only embolden these types of efforts in the future. |
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| Saturos | Mar 30 2016, 07:43 PM Post #258 |
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heart-under-blade
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That's some colossal amounts of bullshit right there. I hope the backlash over firing her gets Nintendo in super hot water, because... yeah, wow. I'm definitely not pleased with Nintendo right now. This case is so ridiculous that even Zoe's ex-boyfriend who started the whole "Gamergate" conspiracy theory condemned it. >_> But I guess that just goes to show that once you make a monster, it's easy for it to get out of control. |
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| Marinus | Mar 30 2016, 08:05 PM Post #259 |
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I've been doing a little "light" reading about the whole thing, and the water is pretty muddy. Allegedly, she has made the controversial comments about child porn over the years, including a college-thesis about Japan's stance of the subject. It seems that some folks, angry over the localization of XCX and Fates, picked her to be the one to vent their frustrations to, despite not being apart of the localization team. They began digging up years old things from her past to use against her. Personally, I think a lot of her statements were being taking out of context, and/or misinterpreted. Although, now it looks like Nintendo released a statement saying she was fired for moonlighting, violating a clause of her contract with N. http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/03/31/nintendo-terminates-fire-emblem-fates-spokesperson |
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| Kiki | Mar 30 2016, 08:55 PM Post #260 |
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Kiki Martius Chantico
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Some of Rapp's controversial comments: http://imgur.com/a/uGLHz While some of what she is saying seems understandable to me, and other comments seem utterly reprehensible, there's one fact. She tried to have this radical activist persona and also a professional, marketing persona in the same vessel/twitter account. At least one anti-child-abuse organization contacted Nintendo concerned about her comments. I don't believe her views were inherently contradictory with her job itself, but her public persona obviously crossed lines and when it looked like Nintendo itself could be in the crossfire, of course they fired her. I don't believe Nintendo was bending to the will of the dumbass harassers. I think the termination was genuinely about the things Rapp did and said. |
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