[8/10/2014 4:58:40 PM] Kyle: y'know, here's an interesting question
[8/10/2014 4:58:55 PM] Kyle: do we know for certain that despair directly blackens a soul gem?
[8/10/2014 4:59:19 PM] Kyle: or do the megucas simply refuse to cleanse it with grief seeds /because/ of their despair, like Sayaka?
[8/10/2014 4:59:21 PM] Mireia: Doesn't Homura's start turing black rapidly when she doesn't know what to do in the final timeline? And Madoka stops her?
[8/10/2014 4:59:26 PM] Sadique: Yeah, that was a thing.
[8/10/2014 4:59:30 PM] Kyle: she's also taking a beating by WPN
[8/10/2014 4:59:33 PM] Sadique: It started darkening pretty quickly.
[8/10/2014 4:59:40 PM] Kyle: hmm, true
[8/10/2014 4:59:45 PM] Aaron: pretty sure it's directly from despair
[8/10/2014 4:59:54 PM] Sadique: I mean, if it had been a gradual darkening as WPN just beat her down, that would be one thing
[8/10/2014 4:59:57 PM] Sadique: Though
[8/10/2014 5:00:01 PM] Kyle: I'm just trying to connect the facts that both magic usage and despair blacken the soul gem
[8/10/2014 5:00:02 PM] Sadique: It may be worth double-checking anyway, to be sure.
[8/10/2014 5:00:09 PM] Mireia: She had, yes, but it started turning pretty fast when she was like "what do? If I go back in time, that will just make Madoka a bigger target."
[8/10/2014 5:00:16 PM] Aaron: magic is powered by hope
[8/10/2014 5:00:29 PM] Aaron: seems the most likely thing?
[8/10/2014 5:01:44 PM] Aaron: given that the phase change of hope to despair, aka hope being lost, is what generates the massive amounts of energy. so hope is like a positive emotional state and despair is a negative emotional state (lol, pseudo-science)
[8/10/2014 5:02:31 PM] Aaron: so the shift from hope to despair emits energy, maybe like the way an electron emits light when it drops from a higher-energy state to a lower-energy one.
[8/10/2014 5:02:56 PM] Kyle: wouldn't that make a girl's hope bouyed to her "MP"?
[8/10/2014 5:03:03 PM] Aaron: and we've seen that the quality and quantity of hope in a magical girl's wish determines their power
[8/10/2014 5:03:36 PM] Kyle: like, when Madoka witches, I never got the impression that she was really despairing
[8/10/2014 5:03:45 PM] Kyle: she always seemed content to die defeating WPN
[8/10/2014 5:04:02 PM] Aaron: hmmm, that's a good point. though she certainly appears in agony
[8/10/2014 5:04:16 PM] Kyle: pain, sure, the soul gem doesn't block all pain
[8/10/2014 5:05:52 PM] Aaron: I don't think we have sufficient information to answer this question >.>
[8/10/2014 5:06:10 PM] Kyle: <_< which is annoying, because this is actualy a pretty central concept of the whole system
[8/10/2014 5:06:18 PM] Kyle: unlike our previous discussion
[8/10/2014 5:06:21 PM] Aaron: was trying to work out a way in which it might be a one-direction relationship, but there's no reeal evidence for that
[8/10/2014 5:06:48 PM] Aaron: but that could be interesting, though: if Sayaka's refusal to clean her soul gem contributed in some way to the despair she was feeling
[8/10/2014 5:07:06 PM] Aaron: oh
[8/10/2014 5:07:08 PM] Kyle: like, if you ignored Madoka, you could argue that the use of magic actually has a mental affect on the girl that pushes her into depression
[8/10/2014 5:07:18 PM] Kyle: by way of "converting" hope into magic
[8/10/2014 5:07:33 PM] Kyle: and when there's nothing left, witch'd
[8/10/2014 5:07:39 PM] Aaron: well, I think the pool there is so huge that most magical girls don't let themselves get into the point where it's visible
[8/10/2014 5:07:45 PM] Kyle: who then converts despair back or something
[8/10/2014 5:07:51 PM] Mireia: [Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:06 PM] Kyle:

<<< <_< which is annoying, because this is actualy a pretty central concept of the whole system
unlike our previous discussion
are you trying to say getting your period isn't an essential part of pmmm
[8/10/2014 5:07:55 PM] Aaron: though I'm sure some do
[8/10/2014 5:08:14 PM] Aaron: but there's also a case in a spinoff where two girls prevent themselves from witching
by sheer force of will/hope
[8/10/2014 5:08:27 PM] Aaron: so because they don't lose hope, they don't witch
even though their magic's gone
[8/10/2014 5:08:31 PM] Kyle: witching from magic overuse?
[8/10/2014 5:08:31 PM] Mireia: Which spinoff? Kazumi?
[8/10/2014 5:08:35 PM] Aaron: yupyup
[8/10/2014 5:08:37 PM] Aaron: yeah
[8/10/2014 5:08:39 PM] Kyle: hmm
[8/10/2014 5:08:41 PM] Mireia: Ah, I need to read that one.
[8/10/2014 5:08:51 PM] Kyle: that would fit with that theory
[8/10/2014 5:08:54 PM] Kyle: goddammit madoka
[8/10/2014 5:09:02 PM] Kyle: you are why we can't have nice things
[8/10/2014 5:09:42 PM] Mireia: Kyouko kind of messes things up, too.
[8/10/2014 5:09:51 PM] Aaron: yeah, was just thinking of that
[8/10/2014 5:10:31 PM] Mireia: For example, the theory that the show is following Faust in that once a girl finds happiness in her wish, her soul is damned. But... Kyouko's wish backfired a long time ago and she's still walking around fine.
[8/10/2014 5:10:45 PM] Aaron: you could either say kyouko has a) given up hope (she kind of has), or she used all of her magic/hope, instead of generating that tiny sliver of magic/hope
[8/10/2014 5:10:51 PM] Aaron: that's not quite accurate
[8/10/2014 5:10:58 PM] Aaron: Faust is damned once he makes the wish
[8/10/2014 5:11:05 PM] Aaron: his happiness has nothing to do with it
[8/10/2014 5:11:07 PM] Kyle: You could argue that Kyouko countered her limited hope by restricting her magic (illusion)
[8/10/2014 5:11:09 PM] Mireia: The only time she witches out in any continuity is the portable, in which she witches out when Homura kills Sayaka before there's a chance to save her.
[8/10/2014 5:11:15 PM] Mireia: Oh,
[8/10/2014 5:11:16 PM] Kyle: since she isn't really without hope
[8/10/2014 5:11:29 PM] Aaron: wait
[8/10/2014 5:11:30 PM] Aaron: wait
[8/10/2014 5:11:31 PM] Aaron: wait
[8/10/2014 5:11:31 PM] Aaron: no
[8/10/2014 5:11:32 PM] Aaron: you're right
[8/10/2014 5:11:34 PM] Kyle: she's just got a cynical version of it
[8/10/2014 5:11:34 PM] Aaron: I'm wrong
[8/10/2014 5:11:40 PM] Mireia: Okay, I need to read it. I thought Mephistopheles drags him off if he feels even a moment of pure bliss.
[8/10/2014 5:11:47 PM] Aaron: yes, that's right
[8/10/2014 5:12:01 PM] Sadique: Remember, there's Faust, and also the earlier Faustus. :y
[8/10/2014 5:12:12 PM] Aaron: I don't think that converts to Madoka, though
[8/10/2014 5:12:28 PM] Kyle: but yeah, Kyouko stabilizes herself in a medium of hope and despair, basically
[8/10/2014 5:12:31 PM] Aaron: yeah, I was about to disclaim that I haven't read Goethe beyond the first act, and then I remembered that
[8/10/2014 5:12:46 PM] Aaron: I don't think we ever see a girl be taken away because they were happy
[8/10/2014 5:12:46 PM] Kyle: since she has nothing strong really pulling her hope, she has no strong ties to despair, either
[8/10/2014 5:12:50 PM] Mireia: I have not either read Goethe or the earlier legends, so I'm just going on what I've heard second hand.
[8/10/2014 5:12:54 PM] Kyle: Mami 8D
[8/10/2014 5:12:59 PM] Aaron: hurrr
[8/10/2014 5:13:20 PM] Mireia: Well, Sayaka feels happiness with Kyousuke, then Kyouko appears and everything starts going downhill. That's the logic I've seen.
[8/10/2014 5:13:35 PM] Mireia: I saw a TVtropes wmg that said Mami's wish was to not die alone.
[8/10/2014 5:13:43 PM] Mireia: It makes sense based off of the anime...
[8/10/2014 5:13:45 PM] Kyle: I think that would've happened without Kyouko though
[8/10/2014 5:13:50 PM] Mireia: Right,
[8/10/2014 5:14:16 PM] Mireia: that was just the example used. That Kyouko showed up JUST after Sayaka felt comfortable
[8/10/2014 5:14:44 PM] Aaron: well
[8/10/2014 5:15:10 PM] Aaron: magical girls witch when they fall into despair, and energy is generated by the flip from hope to despair. kyubey says that explicitly
[8/10/2014 5:15:20 PM] Aaron: which kind of means you need to be in a state of hope at some point
[8/10/2014 5:15:29 PM] Aaron: but I don't think it's casually linked to them witching
[8/10/2014 5:15:52 PM] Aaron: also, pretty sure Mami's wish was just to be alive
[8/10/2014 5:16:02 PM] Mireia: I mean from a thematic standopint
[8/10/2014 5:16:06 PM] Mireia: I don;t know, okay?
[8/10/2014 5:16:16 PM] Aaron: or at least, I haven't seen any information more specific on that
[8/10/2014 5:16:59 PM] Kyle: ITC: PMMM fails at science
[8/10/2014 5:17:23 PM] Aaron: idk, it's a pretty tenuous connection, and what you said about Kyouko kind of disproves it already
[Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:10 PM] Mireia:

<<< For example, the theory that the show is following Faust in that once a girl finds happiness in her wish, her soul is damned. But... Kyouko's wish backfired a long time ago and she's still walking around fine.
[8/10/2014 5:17:47 PM] Mireia: I know. I was saying that Kyoko shoots a hole in that.
[8/10/2014 5:18:00 PM] Aaron: then yeah, you do know :awsm:
[8/10/2014 5:18:08 PM] Mireia: sorry
[8/10/2014 5:19:12 PM] Aaron: You don't have to apologize, Mir
[8/10/2014 5:19:27 PM] Aaron: You didn't do anything wrong
[8/10/2014 5:19:29 PM] Kyle: yeah mir
[8/10/2014 5:19:31 PM] Kyle: it's too late
[8/10/2014 5:19:34 PM] Kyle: to apologize
[8/10/2014 5:22:39 PM] Mireia: D:
[8/10/2014 5:22:42 PM] Mireia: Mireia witches out.
[8/10/2014 5:24:42 PM] Jon (Chrono): well there is a basis for that
[8/10/2014 5:24:46 PM] Jon (Chrono): when hot water turns cold
[8/10/2014 5:24:49 PM] Jon (Chrono): energy is released
[8/10/2014 5:24:58 PM] Jon (Chrono): that's actually the basis of all electrical power generation
[8/10/2014 5:25:10 PM] Jon (Chrono): and the basis of an oceanic thermal pump too
[8/10/2014 5:25:42 PM] Jon (Chrono): create a lower water pressure pipe that sucks cold seafloor water up to the surface, which generates a weak thermal gradient current
[8/10/2014 5:25:47 PM] Jon (Chrono): re hope turning into despair
[8/10/2014 5:25:51 PM] Jon (Chrono): as energy
[8/10/2014 5:26:10 PM] Kyle: right, I can accept that as their reasoning
[8/10/2014 5:26:30 PM] Kyle: but it doesn't quite fit accurately in all cases, particularly concerning witching out
[8/10/2014 5:26:37 PM] Jon (Chrono): yes
[8/10/2014 5:26:44 PM] Kyle: also lol
[8/10/2014 5:26:49 PM] Jon (Chrono): also Kyubey wtf
[8/10/2014 5:26:57 PM] Jon (Chrono): Madoka's witch could've destroyed the universe
[8/10/2014 5:26:57 PM] Kyle: that literally means girls steal hope from witches via grief seeds
[8/10/2014 5:27:05 PM] Jon (Chrono): if she made any other wish
[8/10/2014 5:27:07 PM] Jon (Chrono): but the one she did
[8/10/2014 5:27:48 PM] Reil: Well, not really
[8/10/2014 5:27:50 PM] Jon (Chrono): at some point you'd think "if Madoka's despair would create a witch that could destroy the universe, I better not [radio edit]ing contract her anymore, gg homura" instead NOPE
[8/10/2014 5:27:53 PM] Reil: since the witch is dead at that point
[8/10/2014 5:31:37 PM] Jon (Chrono): the point still stands
[8/10/2014 5:31:46 PM] Jon (Chrono): I wonder if madoka visited herself
[8/10/2014 5:31:48 PM] Jon (Chrono): from other timelines
[8/10/2014 5:31:53 PM] Jon (Chrono): where she witched out
[8/10/2014 5:31:55 PM] Kyle: I don't think Gretchen could destroy the universe, though, could she?
[8/10/2014 5:32:23 PM] Jon (Chrono): Kyubey's commentary suggests that Madoka's wish was hopeful enough to create a universe and thus her grief seed was despairing enough to destroy it
[8/10/2014 5:33:36 PM] Reil: I don't think Madoka does the alternate universe thing quite like that, Chron
[8/10/2014 5:34:07 PM] Reil: Like, there aren't slightly less than 100 parallel universes that suddenly didn't have a Homura anymore
[8/10/2014 5:35:55 PM] Aaron: [Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:27 PM] Kyle:

<<< that literally means girls steal hope from witches via grief seeds
I think it's more that they're depositing the despair... which, you know, doesn't... really... work if hope and despair share a straight positive-negative relationship
[8/10/2014 5:36:04 PM] Aaron: though I guess if you subtract a negative that adds?
[8/10/2014 5:36:38 PM] Aaron: so despair is like... a negative existence?
[8/10/2014 5:36:39 PM] Kyle: yeah, I see the hope + despair set as analgous to heat + cold
[8/10/2014 5:36:46 PM] Kyle: despair being the absence of hope
[8/10/2014 5:36:48 PM] Aaron: *flails*
[8/10/2014 5:36:51 PM] Kyle: or light + dark
[8/10/2014 5:37:03 PM] Aaron: idk though
[8/10/2014 5:37:08 PM] Kyle: one's a quantity, one's a relative absence of said quality
[8/10/2014 5:37:12 PM] Aaron: if witches derive power from despair
[8/10/2014 5:37:21 PM] Aaron: then that means it's a harnessable force, right?
[8/10/2014 5:37:23 PM] Jon (Chrono): uh yes
[8/10/2014 5:37:28 PM] Kyle: or witches derive power by consuming hope
[8/10/2014 5:37:29 PM] Jon (Chrono): they do derive power from despair
[8/10/2014 5:37:45 PM] Kyle: and thus harness the energy given off in turn
[8/10/2014 5:37:47 PM] Jon (Chrono): note the hitomicult was full of people who were like 'I lost my job' 'my factory closed' 'my son died'
[8/10/2014 5:37:50 PM] Jon (Chrono): 'i'm Hitomi'
[8/10/2014 5:37:55 PM] Aaron: wwwww
[8/10/2014 5:37:59 PM] Jon (Chrono): and ofc Mami saved the suicidial woman
[8/10/2014 5:40:24 PM] Jon (Chrono): so it probably goes Meguca reduces despair by taking it into herself, transfers it to grief seed, which if too much is fed to, revives, witches increase despair by adding it to people
[8/10/2014 5:40:33 PM] Jon (Chrono): since the black stuff
[8/10/2014 5:40:36 PM] Jon (Chrono): is what's being traded around
[8/10/2014 5:40:41 PM] Jon (Chrono): and too much of it is bad
[8/10/2014 5:40:58 PM] Jon (Chrono): we'll say despair is the currency of sorcery and is symbolic of that blackness
[8/10/2014 5:41:06 PM] Kyle: that's kind of my point, though
[8/10/2014 5:41:36 PM] Aaron: well
[8/10/2014 5:41:48 PM] Kyle: how do you differentiate despair being a quantifiable "essence" and despair being the absence of a quantity of "hope"?
[8/10/2014 5:41:52 PM] Aaron: you can't remove the cold from something and have it automatically warm up
[8/10/2014 5:42:09 PM] Aaron: well, you can, but ti defies entropy :awsm:
[8/10/2014 5:42:38 PM] Aaron: you have to expend energy to get it to warm
which might be the point, that it defies entropy, buuuuut I'm not sold on that
[8/10/2014 5:42:40 PM] Jon (Chrono): you remove heat from things satay
[8/10/2014 5:42:46 PM] Jon (Chrono): that's the thing that goes against entropy
[8/10/2014 5:42:54 PM] Jon (Chrono): removing cold from something is infact
[8/10/2014 5:42:58 PM] Jon (Chrono): thermodynamically favourable
[8/10/2014 5:43:05 PM] Aaron: hm, really?
[8/10/2014 5:43:11 PM] Jon (Chrono): here lemme find a coursea on basic thermodynamics
[8/10/2014 5:43:12 PM] Kyle: assuming a closed system, though
[8/10/2014 5:43:19 PM] Jon (Chrono): oh yeah
[8/10/2014 5:43:23 PM] Jon (Chrono): which the earth might as well be
[8/10/2014 5:43:29 PM] Kyle: in this case, the grief seed + soul gem would be the closed system
[8/10/2014 5:43:31 PM] Jon (Chrono): well no we're very very slowly radiating heat away
[8/10/2014 5:44:00 PM] Kyle: well yeah, depending on how many factors you take into account, eventually the only closed system is "all of existence"
[8/10/2014 5:44:35 PM] Kyle: anything less than that is just an estimate
[8/10/2014 5:44:48 PM] Kyle: (often a really accurate estimate, but still)
[8/10/2014 5:45:00 PM] Aaron: I'm having trouble seeing how this analogy works
you hold a freezer beside a pot of roomtemp water, and the cold gets sucked out of the pot and into the freezer, thus making the pot warmer? doesn't that go against the heat gradient?
[8/10/2014 5:45:11 PM] Jon (Chrono): All geological activity is caused by heat leftover from friction of impacts during the earth's formation 4 billion years ago... and radioactive decay that was stored into uranium by a supernova 6 billion years ago
[8/10/2014 5:45:14 PM] Aaron: >mfw I wish I took more actual science classes
[8/10/2014 5:45:32 PM] Kyle: the heat moves from the water to the freezer
[8/10/2014 5:45:39 PM] Aaron: yeah, that's what I was thinking
[8/10/2014 5:45:42 PM] Kyle: making the freezer warmer, and the water colder
[8/10/2014 5:45:54 PM] Kyle: easy example is dropping an ice cube into a glass of warm water
[8/10/2014 5:45:57 PM] Aaron: so if despair is merely the absence of heat
[8/10/2014 5:46:05 PM] Aaron: how does a soul gem brighten by being exposed to a grief seed?
[8/10/2014 5:46:05 PM] Kyle: the ice gains heat, the water loses it
[8/10/2014 5:46:20 PM] Jon (Chrono): the principle of equivalent exchange
[8/10/2014 5:46:21 PM] Kyle: but the system of ice + water remains the same (assuming no losses to environment)
[8/10/2014 5:46:47 PM] Jon (Chrono): the whole point of meguca is that doing that with hope/despair produces more of one than the other when the exchange happens
[8/10/2014 5:46:54 PM] Kyle: depends on how you view it, I suppose
[8/10/2014 5:47:04 PM] Kyle: with conventional mechanics, the two are trying to equalize
[8/10/2014 5:47:11 PM] Jon (Chrono): I assume turning hope to despair produces far more despair (the black stuff) then there was hope
[8/10/2014 5:47:35 PM] Jon (Chrono): 'turning hope into despair' is as misleading as turning hot heat into cold heat though
[8/10/2014 5:47:37 PM] Kyle: [radio edit] now I confused myself, hold on
[8/10/2014 5:47:53 PM] Aaron: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait
[8/10/2014 5:48:00 PM] Kyle: alternatively
[8/10/2014 5:48:03 PM] Aaron: where are you getting that hope -> despair produces more despair?
[8/10/2014 5:48:17 PM] Aaron: I can't think of any examples of that
[8/10/2014 5:48:17 PM] Jon (Chrono): that's the whole reason Kyubey is doing this
[8/10/2014 5:48:18 PM] Kyle: it could be despair that's the quantifiable substance, instead of hope
[8/10/2014 5:48:42 PM] Jon (Chrono): in his speech he says when hope gives way to despair, tremendous energy is produced, more than was put in
[8/10/2014 5:48:51 PM] Aaron: given that they always reiterate "for every person you save, you curse one in equal measure" "enough energy to make a universe, enough to destroy one"
[8/10/2014 5:48:58 PM] Jon (Chrono): yeah
[8/10/2014 5:49:00 PM] Kyle: maybe it's like a phase change?
[8/10/2014 5:49:06 PM] Jon (Chrono): because Kyubey is picking up the extra
[8/10/2014 5:49:07 PM] Jon (Chrono): for himself
[8/10/2014 5:49:08 PM] Jon (Chrono): :3
[8/10/2014 5:49:08 PM] Aaron: I think he says explicitly
[8/10/2014 5:49:10 PM] Aaron: phase change
[8/10/2014 5:49:18 PM] Aaron: "the phase change from hope to despair"
[8/10/2014 5:49:21 PM] Jon (Chrono): yeah he does use phase change
[8/10/2014 5:49:22 PM] Kyle: that might be the best way to think about it, actually
[8/10/2014 5:49:25 PM] Jon (Chrono): in some translations
[8/10/2014 5:49:34 PM] Kyle: so then
[8/10/2014 5:49:35 PM] Aaron: oh yeah, translations
[8/10/2014 5:49:41 PM] Kyle: if hope and despair are different phases
[8/10/2014 5:49:48 PM] Aaron: must learn moonrunes
[8/10/2014 5:49:52 PM] Kyle: what's the quantity that's being added or subtracted?
[8/10/2014 5:50:00 PM] Kyle: moonrunes won't really help I don't think
[8/10/2014 5:50:03 PM] Jon (Chrono): "magic"
[8/10/2014 5:50:05 PM] Kyle: since it's japanese
[8/10/2014 5:50:18 PM] Kyle: so it's based on how you interpret what he's saying anyway
[8/10/2014 5:50:21 PM] Jon (Chrono): phase change is actually an extremely specific technical scientific term
[8/10/2014 5:50:28 PM] Kyle: and how you choose to represent it in English
[8/10/2014 5:50:28 PM] Jon (Chrono): it is unlikely to be heard in a casual
[8/10/2014 5:50:33 PM] Jon (Chrono): and thus misunderstandable
[8/10/2014 5:50:36 PM] Jon (Chrono): conversation
[8/10/2014 5:50:41 PM] Kyle: true
[8/10/2014 5:50:53 PM] Kyle: and Kyubey does use scienctific terms
[8/10/2014 5:50:56 PM] Jon (Chrono): if Kyubey used the japanese scientific term for 'phase transition' I very much doubt the translators got it wrong
[8/10/2014 5:51:03 PM] Kyle: yeah
[8/10/2014 5:51:08 PM] Kyle: I was thinking more in general
[8/10/2014 5:51:11 PM] Jon (Chrono): yeah
[8/10/2014 5:51:19 PM] Jon (Chrono): so what's the black stuff
[8/10/2014 5:51:27 PM] Jon (Chrono): they're taking away from griefing seeds
[8/10/2014 5:51:31 PM] Jon (Chrono): if hope and despair are phase changes
[8/10/2014 5:51:32 PM] Kyle: ??? in the despair phase?
[8/10/2014 5:52:14 PM] Kyle: I suppose this would also make hope and despair the same element, the name of which is arbitrary, I guess
[8/10/2014 5:52:30 PM] Kyle: but in order to produce said phase change, something has to act on it
[8/10/2014 5:52:38 PM] Kyle: one of these is the use of magic, somehow
[8/10/2014 5:52:54 PM] Kyle: the other is...muh feels
[8/10/2014 5:53:13 PM] Kyle: which puts us right back where we started, I think >_>
[8/10/2014 5:54:06 PM] Kyle: "wtf connects these two processes"
[8/10/2014 5:54:14 PM] Jon (Chrono): 'magic'
[8/10/2014 5:54:21 PM] Jon (Chrono): "it's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit"
[8/10/2014 5:54:39 PM] Kyle: [radio edit] you, I need to know the rules so I can do cool shit with it
[8/10/2014 5:54:55 PM] Jon (Chrono): let's see, lack of serotonin
[8/10/2014 5:55:04 PM] Jon (Chrono): causes the depression cycle to activate
[8/10/2014 5:55:28 PM] Jon (Chrono): strongly depressed serotonin for a short time can definately lead to a bout of suicidal despair
[8/10/2014 5:55:46 PM] Jon (Chrono): there's your answer
[8/10/2014 5:55:54 PM] Jon (Chrono): hormones
[8/10/2014 5:55:55 PM] Jon (Chrono): tadaaa
[8/10/2014 5:56:59 PM] Jon (Chrono): wtiches are clearly evil ghosts
[8/10/2014 5:57:10 PM] Jon (Chrono): so you can view life with magic as 'being empowered to become a witch'
[8/10/2014 5:58:34 PM] Aaron: [Sunday, August 10, 2014 5:52 PM] Kyle:

<<< I suppose this would also make hope and despair the same element, the name of which is arbitrary, I guess
emotions
[8/10/2014 5:59:08 PM] Aaron: I think that's a difference from megucascience and RLscience
[8/10/2014 5:59:50 PM] Aaron: in megucaverse, emotions aren't only a by-product of chemical processes, but a source of energy -- and therefore quantifiable? -- itself
[8/10/2014 6:00:05 PM] Aaron: since kyubey says that humans by their emotions surpass entropy
[8/10/2014 6:00:26 PM] Aaron: aka they produce more hope than it took resources to create it
[8/10/2014 6:10:35 PM] Kyle: I would say "not all emotions" but
[8/10/2014 6:10:36 PM] Kyle: well
[8/10/2014 6:10:45 PM] Kyle: ai yo
[8/10/2014 6:24:27 PM] Jon (Chrono): 'what is love? baby don't hurt me-'
[8/10/2014 6:41:01 PM] Aaron: #notallemotions
[8/10/2014 6:41:10 PM] Aaron: so could you have like
[8/10/2014 6:41:17 PM] Aaron: a magical girl fuelled by hate
[8/10/2014 6:41:24 PM] Aaron: or happiness
[8/10/2014 6:41:42 PM] Aaron: or are all positive and negative emotions clustered into hope and despair, respectively
[8/10/2014 6:41:51 PM] Aaron: and love is kind of grey/transcending?
[8/10/2014 6:42:36 PM] Sadique: It's clearly more of a trippy rainbow.