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| ToK vs GSL Diplomacy; Our first cross forum competition | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 3 2014, 07:06 AM (645 Views) | |
| Lord Zedd | Jul 3 2014, 07:06 AM Post #1 |
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I'm currently working on a new set of rules for Diplomacy to coincide with the finding of Abominator's (GSL's Admin) Lost Age Diplomacy map. Do you have many Diplomacy players here? |
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| The Phantom Squee | Jul 3 2014, 07:31 AM Post #2 |
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"
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By pure chance, we just started up two games, organized via Skype! Necare, Raseren, and myself are probably the most active members here who play it, but off the top of my head, Valcos, Slimegunk, Skylin, Adnarel, Jenna, Jacob, and PK have all also either played before or expressed an interest. |
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| Lord Zedd | Jul 3 2014, 04:33 PM Post #3 |
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That's handy when I finish tweaking some rules then I'll let you know what I've added. I'm presuming you're using a Weyard scale map? |
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| Skylin | Jul 3 2014, 06:14 PM Post #4 |
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2 Lewd 4 U
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In the game I'm in at least we're doing WWII Europe. |
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| Slimegunk | Jul 3 2014, 07:06 PM Post #5 |
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My servants never die
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The one with sky is WWII, the other one i'm in is Ancient Mediterranean |
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| The Phantom Squee | Jul 3 2014, 07:51 PM Post #6 |
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"
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We've been playing on vDiplomacy, a site with an engine specifically for playing Diplomacy. One of our games is the classic Europe, the other is a 5-player Ancient Mediterranean variant. We do have that Weyard variant that Adnarel made way back, but last I heard he's been meaning to re-balance it. |
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| Clawford | Jul 4 2014, 11:05 AM Post #7 |
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has no style
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When the game gets started how long are you planning on keeping the rounds? |
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| Lord Zedd | Jul 6 2014, 06:21 AM Post #8 |
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Most probably as it's Weyard Scale and cross-forum I'm suggesting probably 24 max. I'll post the map we've got so far and link you to my messy topic over on GSL where I'm posting rules in drips and drabs till it's finalised. Which will probably be tonight when it's all ready. If you get confused by how I've explained some rules, I will be tidying them all up. The unedited map; http://i.imgur.com/ukLkgWL.jpg The thread on GSL; http://goldensunland.freeforums.org/diplomacy-war-for-weyard-t397.html |
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| The Phantom Squee | Jul 6 2014, 02:31 PM Post #9 |
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"
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So would we be registering for GSL and playing through there? Skimming the linked thread, I'm a little bit leery of things like resources and random effects (your mention of a possibility of losing units if you cross a mountain with snowy weather in effect, for instance). The former seem to me like they 'd be pushing it in the direction of Risk, which imo is a step down; the latter I just dislike on principle because random game effects are kind of contrary to the point of Diplomacy. EDIT: I do think some of your custom rules have potential, though. Heroes seem like a neat idea, although I think taking a simpler approach with them would be good. |
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| Lord Zedd | Jul 6 2014, 04:39 PM Post #10 |
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Understand concerns about certain rules and that's fine. If you can give me some bits you want removed, as I shall ask over there. And no need to second register as I'll be active on both boards in game so I can post all updates on both sides. |
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| The Phantom Squee | Jul 6 2014, 07:50 PM Post #11 |
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"
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Well, I suppose my concern about resources is that they would make "sit around and gather resources, then splurge on a huge army all in one turn" a viable strategy, which seems to me like it would undermine the principle of knowing what your opponents have at their disposal and trying to predict what they'll do with it. Call me a Diplomacy purist, but I really like the basic "1 supply center = 1 unit" system. I think it handles army size in a fair and balanced way, without turning it into a game of resource micromanagement. If you do want to represent an economic system in which players compete with each other, there's a variant here that makes an attempt at that. I haven't played it myself, so I don't know how successful it is, but it looks easy enough--the "economy" board is essentially treated as a second game board, where the players move "armies" around to represent their competing for control of various trade goods. My issue with random effects like weather is simply that it introduces elements into the game that are beyond the control of all players. If somebody does poorly in a vanilla Diplomacy game, you can generally trace it back to them either making a bad move at one point, or another player backstabbing them, both of which can typically be explained by "Well, if you'd negotiated/strategized better, you could have avoided that." Whether you win or lose, you do it largely on your own merit as a tactician and/or negotiator. Having random elements like that opens up the door for a player to get totally screwed over by bad luck even if they play their best and negotiate well. I do think the idea of representing weather has merit, though. I'd just handle it in a way that's more predictable and can be accounted for with planning--maybe mountains are impassable in the Winter, rivers in the Spring (due to flooding), and I dunno, deserts in the Summer? That way you open up the possibility of players being able to take weather effects into account when they plan their moves, without having to worry about the fate of their army resting on a coin flip. These are all just my suggestions, of course; don't feel like I'm trying to give you orders or anything. It is ultimately your game to modify as you please, and I defer to your judgment regarding any changes. Like I said, I really like the sound of Hero units. I can't seem to find an explanation of how they work among your posts, though. Are they bought separately as their own unit, or are they attached to an existing unit? What effect do they have on a battle? |
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| Lord Zedd | Jul 8 2014, 03:32 AM Post #12 |
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The way for me to explain Heroes is that they are their own Unit with different stats, had planned a small Stat chart covering Attack, Defence and Support values. I would incorporate canon characters into the Hero Units List, but I will also include non-canon Heroes (be it timeline or just general non existence in the GS Universe.) Whilst I have the rules in writing, I haven't fully reorganised them because of forces away from the game. Some of the Heroes will have superior stats but hindered by abilities they can't choose to try and balance out their strengths, whereas this starting at lower level can choose their abilities. With regards to the resources though, I understand your concern but I don't plan on making units cheap so that it does become more strategic when choosing whether to spawn a unit. It also stops the movement rotation to abuse spawning and having half a boards worth of units within a ridiculous amount of turns. |
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| The Phantom Squee | Jul 8 2014, 08:43 AM Post #13 |
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"
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Hmmm. I suppose that's fair. At any rate, we can test out the use of resources in this game and see whether they need to be removed or modified. One modification that would be nice to see to the map itself would be the symbols. As it is, referring back to a chart to interpret all the geometric shapes is a bit of a pain. Would you, or whomever created your map, be willing to replace them with symbols to represent what each territory has? An anchor for ports, tower for castles, something to that effect? I'd be willing to make some basic symbols myself (although you could probably do a lot better than me). I think this would make planning a lot easier for all players. My only misgiving about heroes, from what I've read so far, is the complexity they seem to involve. I do like the skills you've implemented for them, though. I guess that's another thing we'll see in action and can judge for ourselves once the game's underway. |
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| Lord Zedd | Jul 8 2014, 07:02 PM Post #14 |
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With the hero thing, I've basically stolen that from a mix of RTS games like LOTR Battle for Middle Earth and a beyond basic stat chart straight out of Games Workshop's Warhammer 40K/LOTR table top games. I will look at symbols. Although probably for this ill have to increase the map size from its current pixel size. |
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3:08 AM Jul 11






