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| Petition to Remove This retaged Word Filter | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 16 2013, 04:39 AM (6,159 Views) | |
| Hisui | Oct 17 2013, 12:42 PM Post #101 |
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Seccy "no fun allowed" Secundum
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gogogo |
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| Seoulbowz | Oct 17 2013, 12:47 PM Post #102 |
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Supergeil
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Yep, that answers it pretty well. I don't think I necessarily agree but I understand. I think your edit hits on a good point that I wasn't necessarily getting at but is something I agree with. Users still call others 'Touhoufuzzy little man-peachs' or instance, or 'Xfuzzy little man-peachs' all the time. classy and intelligent individual isn't a word I see used very often on this forum, outside of say Boyd's posts. Only reason I name Boyd is because he started the topic, there are one or two others but I think people who use that word are relatively rare to begin with. |
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| Saturos | Oct 17 2013, 12:54 PM Post #103 |
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heart-under-blade
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My concern with the edited strategy (that just occurred to me) is that it almost overextends our authority. It goes from only "having a standard for the public forum" to "changing the habits of individual posters," with punishment? (or enforced another way) if they don't. As opposed to silly filters, which are more intune with Temple spirit. What do you think, is that a founded fear? |
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| Hisui | Oct 17 2013, 01:22 PM Post #104 |
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Seccy "no fun allowed" Secundum
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It might be, but I don't think it changes anything. Everyone here still knows what the words mean, anyone who doesn't just asks and is told by people getting round the filters, etc. I thought the ideas was to make it more PG-13, and even if they're filtered, everyone still knows what they mean and nothing changes. |
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| Saturos | Oct 17 2013, 01:30 PM Post #105 |
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heart-under-blade
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Well, something does change. Even if it's euphemism, what's actually said is quite different. If people infer what word was filtered, it can't be helped. So the face/appearance/public part of the Temple is indeed censored, but we're not censoring your minds. We could do what Gamefaqs used to and substitute a certain amount of astericks based on what the word is. |
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| Seoulbowz | Oct 17 2013, 01:33 PM Post #106 |
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Supergeil
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No, stop Seccy, just stop. Satty, you're right. If we make saying the words punishable that's worse than having them censored. So if my choice is between having classy and intelligent individual and fuzzy little man-peach censored or making saying them punishable then I choose the former. Ultimately I'd rather have them be uncensored and strongly discouraged from use... kind of like my college's 'smoke free campus' policy. You're not SUPPOSED to smoke on campus but if you do, nobody's going to stop you. |
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| leaf | Oct 17 2013, 01:47 PM Post #107 |
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Crimson Leaf Vermillion
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I'm with bowse, more or less. I think they should remain uncensored but discouraged from use. There shouldn't be any formal "punishment" associated with using them; the scorn of others should be punishment enough. Feedback from peers is an incredibly strong reinforcer that people often ignore. Furthermore, if you are going to censor them, don't use something completely contrary like classy and intelligent individual or classy, intelligent, and sophisticated. However interesting of a social experiment this may be, you are inadvertently training people to associate these words with a negative connotation. I shouldn't need to explain why this is a toxic practice. |
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| Saturos | Oct 17 2013, 01:48 PM Post #108 |
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heart-under-blade
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I'm not entirely sure there would be scorn for using them, given it's a 50/50 split. So I'm not sure how well that strategy would work. |
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| Seoulbowz | Oct 17 2013, 01:50 PM Post #109 |
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Supergeil
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I think you're misinterpreting "Yes, remove the filter" as "I think people using these words is OK". |
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| Saturos | Oct 17 2013, 01:57 PM Post #110 |
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heart-under-blade
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Ah hmm, good point. Not everyone's clarified in-topic. So how many people think people should self-moderate when it comes to these words. And Leaf, if they ignore or are indifferent to the scorn of others, what should happen? |
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| DJ Octavio | Oct 17 2013, 02:05 PM Post #111 |
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Check out my spicy wasabi beats
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Then employ the rules we have set down. If they're being insulting with it, then steps need to be taken. I'm for removing the filter altogether. |
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| Hisui | Oct 17 2013, 02:15 PM Post #112 |
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Seccy "no fun allowed" Secundum
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self-moderate. |
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| Saturos | Oct 17 2013, 02:29 PM Post #113 |
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heart-under-blade
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The problem at hand, Ryu, is whether any usage of the word is an insult to the groups they reference. Whether it's insulting a person or a thing, it's meant to be derogatory either way. And if self-moderation doesn't work, Seccy? What should the proper response be? |
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| leaf | Oct 17 2013, 02:31 PM Post #114 |
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Crimson Leaf Vermillion
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What should happen? Social engineering. That's it. Nothing formal. It's not explicitly against the rules, after all. However, it's very difficult to remain "ignorant" when someone is asking you to stop. If it becomes excessive, people will eventually speak up. If people continue calling out that person whenever they use a "taboo" word, that use will drop dramatically. This very topic is actually an example of this phenomenon, where some practice got to the breaking point and now is open for discussion. An important distinction to make is that this is a gradual process. People don't change overnight. However, asking someone to tone down a behavior is far less invasive than directly censoring that behavior. What's more, it's more likely to actually reduce said behavior, since the censoring does nothing to attack the root of the problem. The offender still "wrote" the derogatory term, and those reading the censored material still "know" what was meant. The end effect is that no one wins. The person writing feels constricted, and those reading just make a quick substitution - whether they want to or not. After all, you don't read "[radio edit]" as "bracket r a d i o . e d i t bracket." You read it as "fuck," whether you mean to or not. |
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| Hisui | Oct 17 2013, 02:34 PM Post #115 |
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Seccy "no fun allowed" Secundum
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Go back to what we have now. Give it say...2 months? And at the end modmins make a decision. No second chances. |
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| UltaFlame | Oct 17 2013, 02:56 PM Post #116 |
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Thanks Poui.
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If someone's intentionally being caustic to the community, I'm pretty sure there are rules placed down for people who are being rude. If they bypass the rules sufficiently to the point where a number of people are disturbed / legitimately upset, you step in as mods and admins would normally, use of the word notwithstanding. It's not a special case, y'know. |
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| leaf | Oct 17 2013, 03:07 PM Post #117 |
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Crimson Leaf Vermillion
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Yeah, that's something I failed to touch on, but if someone is going way beyond the line, there are rules already in place against being intentionally antagonistic. It doesn't matter what word is being used for the purpose. If they're going too far and they know it, but don't stop anyway, that's perfectly within the realms of the moderating team to handle it. |
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| Saturos | Oct 17 2013, 03:28 PM Post #118 |
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heart-under-blade
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The issue is if any casual use of the word crosses those lines. As I said before, Leaf, I don't really have an interest in changing people's behaviour, merely ensuring that those words don't appear casually on Temple. It doesn't matter to me whether Boyd uses those words on Skype, just that a certain standard is evidenced on our forum. That really would be social engineering, to try to shift everyone who uses it out of those habits. Your tolerance, or point at when you "speak up," is different from others. This came about because some said that any use was too much use, and evidently 51% agree. "The writer feeling constricted," as you said, is my preferred "social pressure" to stop people from using that word. If they don't like the censor, don't use the word. Censor bypassing IS against the rules, after all. |
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| Nell | Oct 17 2013, 03:47 PM Post #119 |
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The Pretender
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I think, in an ideal world, we'd have no filter, and everyone would just be reasonable and critical in their own use of language, but my feeling is, that if people were allowed (in so much as they are not currently allowed) to say whatever they want, we'd probably be opening ourselves up to even more discussions of 'but it wasn't intended to be offensive, I don't get why you find it offensive, you should just chill', which never seems to be productive. |
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| Gilgamesh | Oct 17 2013, 03:48 PM Post #120 |
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solbowz Aurarius
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I don't really watch movies but it's used it in Blazblue CSEX several times. That's PG-13. Okay, here's the point. The censors should only be in place to keep things PG-13. If you don't like the way I speak, you're not liking it more just because there was a censor. Satty says he doesn't care if I'm unfiltered on Skype; what's the [radio edit]ing difference? If there's anybody in Rumble chat that's in favor of the filter here, did my arrival in the chat ruin your experience just because I was unfiltered? I doubt it. If it ruined it for any other reason, that's not relevant here, shut up Chrono. Consider that most forum activity these days takes place on Skype. If I didn't hate Skype, you'd see classy and intelligent individual unfiltered a lot more than you'd see it filtered. And, what, so do people that want the filter have a slightly negative opinion on me (or not even me, just how I talk I guess) just because I do this? I don't care. There are plenty of worse things than using one or two words. As has been stated/implied, I'm the heaviest user of this word, yet I'm hardly the most caustic person here. It's almost as if one or two words don't ruin your posting experience as much as other things. Futhermore, obviously censoring me here doesn't stop me from typing the words just to get filtered in the first place, doesn't stop it in Skype/MSN, doesn't stop it in real life, and definitely doesn't do anything other than make me think people are overly sensitive. It doesn't discourage me to stop at all, and feeling that way is my right if you're gonna think negatively of me for using the words otherwise. When it comes down to it, further arguing is largely pointless, both because it simply comes down to people who find it offensive vs those who don't, and one side is never going to agree with the other, even if they can see each other's points, and because I know Satty's always gonna side with people who feel offended if he feels they have a reason to be offended and my manner of articulating myself doesn't really fight well against that. If a majority does want it filtered, I won't throw a fit, but I definitely won't be made to look like I'm in the wrong just because some people want to take a "moral" stance and turn it into morals vs being offensive instead of censorship vs free speech. |
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