Symphogear Thread

Temple of Kraden News: Welcome to the Temple of Kraden! ------ All worshipers may enter the Most Holy Place in single file, reflecting on the bountiful blessing Kraden hath provided unto him or herself since their last visit. Head coverings are not necessary, as true penitence and humility are found within. The Priests and Priestesses of Kraden endeavor to remind all that fresh orange juice is heavily preferred; only whores use frozen.

Greetings, heathen. Perhaps some fortuitous blessing of Kraden's grace hath led you to our humble Temple, or perhaps you are simply curious about this strange and wonderful cult. Should you be willing - and dare to hope - to achieve enlightenment, the door opens before you. Lo! Leave your old life behind! For once you step through, you become something more than just yourself.

You become a Kradenette.

Are you willing to make the rapturous plunge? Do you have what it takes?

One of us! One of us! One of us!

Already one of us? Make your presence known:

Pages:
1
…
34
35
36
…
50

Symphogear Thread; MARK SPOILERS
Tweet Topic Started: Sep 7 2013, 01:04 PM (27,231 Views)
Saturos	Aug 3 2015, 07:22 AM Post #681
heart-under-blade Posts: 36,354 Group: Iris Member #2 Joined: March 20, 2005 Gender: Male Country: #0# True Name: Saturos Theme Song: https://youtu.be/mh5vyvMGhqE	Solbowz Quote: Symphogear's use of "yuri" is implicit, not explicit, so it certainly doesn't represent it in a titillating or sexual way like, say, Sakura Trick or Prisma Illya does. I disagree. I also disagree that fanservice has to be titillating or sexual, at least in the way that I think you're implying here. It doesn't have to be explicit or obvious that the point is to be sexual like the "lolita concept" outfits in the Music Video here, it's still fanservice and (in a way) sexual despite not being titillating. I'm operating under this assumption based on your examples of Prisma Ilya and Sakura Trick, as well as your complaints about sexual fanservice. So if I'm wrong about what you mean by titillating or sexual, my apologies. Sure, let me clarify. You're right that schoolgirls can certainly be fetishized, though I think that video having adults do it with those dance motions is a different context (they're intentionally pulling on the schoolgirl act, whereas here they are schoolgirls). But what I mean by titillating/sexual falls under the same implicit/explicit line I mentioned before. Touching their upper arm like that is still within the bounds of friendship, and the lily blossoms are Kirika's feelings/yuri gag. But they're not explicitly showing them making out or anything, so while there is an "idea" of yuri, the "action" of yuri remains in the viewer's imagination. Solbowz Quote: It's hardly even fanservice so much as close friendships, which I can say are more or less accurate to the closeness of friendships in reality Usually I'd be the first one to say "No, it's platonic." In fact I'm sure that you and I have even argued about it before. Except Edge Works' lyrics are literally about how much Kirika and Shirabe love each other and want to protect each other, and the scene in episode one makes it seem less platonic than Chris (and maybe Hibiki) are comfortable with. I'm not sure what whether it's platonic or not has to do with it being fanservice or not, though. Yeah, you're right, it is kind of more than platonic there, so let me clarify my thinking. Their feelings towards each other might be more than platonic, but their actions to each other are still generally platonic. So it's a different kind of fanservice than things rendered explicitly, like in the sexual sort or actual yuri makeouts. Solbowz I'll concede the last point about most sexual fanservice being completely separate from a character's development. I think you're right. I'm not complaining about the yuri existing, I'm complaining about it not being done well and certain scenes or shots being added because certain segments of the fanbase want "muh yuri" or "muh lesbians". If it adds nuance to the characters than yuri scenes are fine, but there's a lot of yuri stuff this season which seems like it was added just for otaku pandering and just because it -can- be done well doesn't make it any better than Maria's boob bounce in the car or whatever. Though I think a decent amount of the yuri scenes this episode were done well. Oh, absolutely, I agree. It's best to have well-written scenes, though I think the ones earlier were also just the generic SoL filler that Symphogear tends to have. Of course it would be better of it developed character, but sometimes it's just for cheap gags. But even so, I think implicit yuri is better than explicit sexual fanservice. I can't even call it sexuality, because that implies opening the whole discourse of how teenagers navigate and negotiate sex. And I think the corollary to well-written yuri is sexuality that is dealt with as such by the cast and writing, where the characters use their sexuality and discuss the facets of human sexuality. Or at least, when sexuality is linked to character. We've both seen Golden Time, so for example: Golden Time spoilers When Koko takes off her shirt when straddling Banri and says she wants to go to Paris now, or when Banri and Linda are dressed as maids and have that moment with the glowstick. These are moments of sexuality expressed as such and noticed as such within the narrative, and are a consequence of the characters rather than outwardly imposed by the viewpoint. The Symphogear cast largely isn't aware of their "sex appeal" (thank goodness), so the 'innocent schoolgirl' fetish comes partially from that as well. Since it's not a result of character, but a result of the camera, it allows the characters to be both "pure" and sexualized. As a result, they don't have agency in the matter, unlike when it comes to the "yuri." So, to sum up my thinking: The "yuri fanservice" is implicit and a product of character agency The "sexual fanservice" is explicit and not a product of character agency Therefore, I consider the "yuri fanservice" preferable to the "sexual fanservice," and if one of them were to be called "otaku pandering," I would definitely consider the latter moreso of that. Not saying that the former doesn't have elements of that, but that it's on a different level from the latter.



Gilgamesh	Aug 3 2015, 07:30 AM Post #682
solbowz Aurarius Posts: 33,599 Group: Venus Clan Member #380 Joined: October 3, 2008 Gender: King of Heroes Blog: Shattered Symbosis Country: #226# True Name: Space Boyd Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6lFNXzC1g	>yuri fanservice is implicit because they did literally everything up to making out >sexual fanservice is explicit even though nobody did anything sexual, they just got naked and boobs bounced This isn't even my final triggered form



Saturos	Aug 3 2015, 07:55 AM Post #683
heart-under-blade Posts: 36,354 Group: Iris Member #2 Joined: March 20, 2005 Gender: Male Country: #0# True Name: Saturos Theme Song: https://youtu.be/mh5vyvMGhqE	Gilgamesh Aug 3 2015, 07:30 AM >yuri fanservice is implicit because they did literally everything up to making out >sexual fanservice is explicit even though nobody did anything sexual, they just got naked and boobs bounced This isn't even my final triggered form Pretty much everything up to making out seems to be normal in friendships in Japan. I'm only speaking from my own experience here, but I often see girls walking arm-in-arm, playing with each other's hair, holding hands, and generally being open and "touch-y" with each other. Obviously I can't speak to Miku and Hibiki sleeping in the same bed, since that's outside my experience, but that's probably p yuri Remember also that showering and bathing with people of the same gender isn't really a big deal "they just got naked and boobs bounced" and also all the butt closeups, butt windows, etc That's pretty explicitly sexual fanservice. And I just said that they didn't do anything sexual, it's all on the part of the camera. The characters aren't explicitly sexual, the show is.



Gilgamesh	Aug 3 2015, 08:20 AM Post #684
solbowz Aurarius Posts: 33,599 Group: Venus Clan Member #380 Joined: October 3, 2008 Gender: King of Heroes Blog: Shattered Symbosis Country: #226# True Name: Space Boyd Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6lFNXzC1g	There are plenty of shows with same sex friendships that have undertones way lighter than Symphogear's, it's definitely meant to be yurifuzzy little man-peach pandering And that's exactly my point, it's not explicit yuri fanservice for you if they don't show a kiss, even though they show all that other stuff, including [radio edit]ing lilies Yet it's explicit sexual fanservice just to show T&A even though nobody [radio edit]ed anything You're being a hypocrite because muh morals or muh preferences or some other crap The show is explicitly yuri fanservice because it does all of that stuff, the characters just aren't because nobody made a love confession



Saturos	Aug 3 2015, 08:48 AM Post #685
heart-under-blade Posts: 36,354 Group: Iris Member #2 Joined: March 20, 2005 Gender: Male Country: #0# True Name: Saturos Theme Song: https://youtu.be/mh5vyvMGhqE	Sexual doesn't only mean "sex," Boyd. >_> And yes, I assume the main "otaku pandering" with yuri would be sexual stuff, which hasn't happened. Like I said, the yuri is largely coming from the characters, the sexual stuff isn't. The yuri is characterization and character-based, but T&A perspectives is extraneous gloss added on that has nothing to do with the characters. Secondly, the "yuri" appeals to audiences who have those close friendships, those who are into same-sex relationships, and yes, maybe the otakus as well. That's still largely the same demographic as the characters involved, who could watch the show and say "Yes, I see myself in this." Whereas the T&A is voyeuristic, since it's not something the characters or demographics participate in, it's something imposed by an outside viewer. Well, according to Solbowz, the characters have made love confessions (see: Kirika and Shirabe, Miku too) in their songs. 8D Here's what I mean by explicit/implicit: - "Yuri" could be yuri, but it could also be close friendships. There's maybe a couple of moments that break this, depending on how you want to interpret those lilies (Kirika's feelings, or cinematographer joke). - "T&A" is explicitly T&A/sexual, it really isn't anything else when there's exaggerated breast bouncing, closeups on erroneous zones, etc. The characters being naked recently does have a reasonable explanation, but it can still be framed or shot differently to avoid high schooler T&A. Also, as I said, one is a product of character, one isn't. Personally, I think that also makes the former better writing than the latter, because the latter isn't intrinsic to the narrative and character interactions. EDIT: I want to clarify something, because I don't want to upset you. There is nothing wrong with sexual fanservice. It is okay to enjoy sexual fanservice. But, I think it's important to recognize what it is (for example, I think that it is inherently exclusive), and how it operates within the work. (Furthermore, I think it's important to consider how media shapes and is shaped by societal values and perspectives.) You can think critically and analytically about something and still enjoy it. If you enjoy T&A, there is nothing wrong with you. Edited by Saturos, Aug 3 2015, 09:05 AM.



Silvy	Aug 3 2015, 09:04 AM Post #686
idolswag4lyfe Posts: 4,760 Group: Venus Clan Member #210 Joined: July 3, 2007 Gender: Hollow Country: #238# True Name: Silvy Theme Song: https://youtu.be/AIG4mhLcplo	jfc you guys, it's just a couple of gay anime girls. This is amusing to watch though so please continue by all means.



Seoulbowz	Aug 3 2015, 09:14 AM Post #687
Supergeil Posts: 19,233 Group: Sol Clan Member #54 Joined: May 28, 2006 Blog: Edeka Country: #79# True Name: Friedrich Liechtenstein Theme Song: https://youtu.be/jxVcgDMBU94	Nah I'm done lol. I think Saturos and I operate under different definitions of fanservice and otaku pandering, and it's gotten to the point where I found most of his last post at me reasonable even if I didn't agree. I hope Boyd keeps getting triggered, though. Edit: Except this Quote: Also, as I said, one is a product of character, one isn't. Personally, I think that also makes the former better writing than the latter, because the latter isn't intrinsic to the narrative and character interactions. It's only better writing if it actually develops the character/plot, like almost everything except the lilies in episode 5. In episode 1 you saw 'generic SoL', but I saw yuri tease that was added for no reason and could have been handled in almost any other way but was written that way to tease yuri. Which leads me to a response to this, I guess Quote: Like I said, the yuri is largely coming from the characters, the sexual stuff isn't. Some of it might be, but some of it seems like it's just the writers adding it because they know the fanbase wants to see it (i.e. fanservice) and it gets ham-fisted and doesn't flow very well. Edit2: Quote: [10:20:56 AM] solbowz: [radio edit] you boyd [10:21:17 AM] solbowz: i was going to be ok letting it lie until you started posting



Gilgamesh	Aug 3 2015, 05:55 PM Post #688
solbowz Aurarius Posts: 33,599 Group: Venus Clan Member #380 Joined: October 3, 2008 Gender: King of Heroes Blog: Shattered Symbosis Country: #226# True Name: Space Boyd Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6lFNXzC1g	Saturos Aug 3 2015, 08:48 AM Sexual doesn't only mean "sex," Boyd. >_> And yes, I assume the main "otaku pandering" with yuri would be sexual stuff, which hasn't happened. lol you're wrong Why do you think yuri fuzzy little man-peachs enjoy so many sfw shows? K-On, Madoka (well, it's only nsfw for the violence), any Precure, etc. You seem to be thinking fringe stuff like Sakura Trick is the norm for yuri pandering, but that's blatantly wrong. K-On et al are strong yuri bastions to this day but nobody talks about Sakura Trick anymore. It doesn't have to be "explicit" to be otaku pandering. Yuri fanservice is almost never done explicitly in the way you're saying it. You'd have to watch a yuri anime for that, which in this case is about the equivalent to just watching ecchi for tits instead. Lack of kissing doesn't make it any less pandering. You can say that it's a product of character so therefore it's not distracting or out of place, but that's wrong. GX When Chris and Tsubasa got their gears damaged, the plot did not grind to a halt so the camera could pan over their naked bodies. Rather, there was no focus on them at all. As you said, all of the nudity is plot based and makes total sense. Their clothes are magically swapped out for powered armor, so of course they go away. When Maria's transformation ends, since Gungnir wasn't damaged, she's clothed right away, the other girls are naked because the damaged gears can't recreate their clothes. It's not mandated by character, no, but it's mandated by plot, so it's not out of place. By contrast, we have to shift tone in the middle of a serious scene for Kirika's lily joke. The plot and everything else stopped for that. That's what's really intrusive, not oh no, naked. It's the same thing as Maria's tits bouncing in the car. By contrast, Miku and Hibiki in bed together as the former comforts the latter is not intrusive, same as with naked girls after their gears break. Scenes like Kirika's and then Miku being all clingy to Hibiki in episode one add nothing, because we already know how they feel, it's just extra fanservice. It's the same thing as focusing the camera on Chris or Maria's chest to remind us they have big boobs. If any of, say, the school yuri moments were instead one of the other girls jealously commenting that Chris has big boobs, you'd feel completely differently. Even though it's the same thing. Really, Maria's scene in the car and the transformation scenes are the only times the camera has ever focused on T&A. Hell, when Hibiki got defeated by Micha her shorts stayed on for a looooooong time just to cover her up as the camera kept it's focus on her. By contrast, Shirabe was stripped instantly and we do see her ass, but the camera doesn't linger on it. Sexual fanservice doesn't only mean sex, and yuri fanservice doesn't only mean kissing. I'm not trying to bring sexual fanservice up to some pedestal, I'm knocking yuri fanservice down because it's the same thing. Also I can understand why you're doing it but you sure are overly focusing on "naked high school girls". So, what, Tsubasa ass and Maria tits are perfectly fine since they're adults out of school? I doubt you think so, so bringing up high school girls doesn't contribute to this argument at all. Symphogear isn't nearly sexual enough for it to be disturbing in that regard.



Gilgamesh	Aug 8 2015, 04:37 AM Post #689
solbowz Aurarius Posts: 33,599 Group: Venus Clan Member #380 Joined: October 3, 2008 Gender: King of Heroes Blog: Shattered Symbosis Country: #226# True Name: Space Boyd Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6lFNXzC1g	holy shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit all of that just happened Spoiler: click to toggle Daily reminder that Berserker is the best Servant class



Super Slash	Aug 8 2015, 04:39 AM Post #690
Posts: 11,749 Group: Mars Clan (wololo!) Member #639 Joined: June 17, 2010 Gender: Male	wrong thread bro



Gilgamesh	Aug 8 2015, 04:42 AM Post #691
solbowz Aurarius Posts: 33,599 Group: Venus Clan Member #380 Joined: October 3, 2008 Gender: King of Heroes Blog: Shattered Symbosis Country: #226# True Name: Space Boyd Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6lFNXzC1g	Nope not at all Guess we know why Elfnein Spoiler: click to toggle was given Carol's memories now though huh? Edited by Gilgamesh, Aug 8 2015, 04:46 AM.



Peytral	Aug 8 2015, 09:13 AM Post #692
peytral pls Posts: 15,452 Group: Sol Clan Member #459 Joined: March 18, 2009 Gender: Miserable pile of secrets Blog: Ab Animo Pario Country: #0# True Name: Peytral Aznable	holy [radio edit] Spoiler: click to toggle that action that Carol battle theme that Wild Arms music that Radiant Force those [radio edit]ing Ignite Mode designs They're really going all out with the Wild Arms this time around.



Seoulbowz	Aug 8 2015, 11:36 AM Post #693
Supergeil Posts: 19,233 Group: Sol Clan Member #54 Joined: May 28, 2006 Blog: Edeka Country: #79# True Name: Friedrich Liechtenstein Theme Song: https://youtu.be/jxVcgDMBU94	Gilgamesh Aug 8 2015, 04:42 AM Nope not at all Guess we know why Elfnein Spoiler: click to toggle was given Carol's memories now though huh? Spoiler: click to toggle I bet Elfnien was the real Carol all along. Also lol this was so anticlimactic.



Gilgamesh	Aug 8 2015, 05:06 PM Post #694
solbowz Aurarius Posts: 33,599 Group: Venus Clan Member #380 Joined: October 3, 2008 Gender: King of Heroes Blog: Shattered Symbosis Country: #226# True Name: Space Boyd Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6lFNXzC1g	Spoiler: click to toggle Why would she be the real Carol when Carol was a normal human but Elfnein lacks gentials? Carol will probably just bodysurf to Elfnein or something except less like Fine does it and more like Touko does in KnK.



Seoulbowz	Aug 8 2015, 05:48 PM Post #695
Supergeil Posts: 19,233 Group: Sol Clan Member #54 Joined: May 28, 2006 Blog: Edeka Country: #79# True Name: Friedrich Liechtenstein Theme Song: https://youtu.be/jxVcgDMBU94	Spoiler: click to toggle Because I want crazy twists. Also it doesn't make sense for her to put herself in harms way like that if she really did have something to do with project edgenite. Let alone rek her memories fighting them.



Gilgamesh	Aug 8 2015, 07:46 PM Post #696
solbowz Aurarius Posts: 33,599 Group: Venus Clan Member #380 Joined: October 3, 2008 Gender: King of Heroes Blog: Shattered Symbosis Country: #226# True Name: Space Boyd Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6lFNXzC1g	Spoiler: click to toggle Maybe her plans would've worked better if she won but they'd still work even if she lost. She did make sure to send Micha away so she wouldn't lose her, after all.



Hoofs	Aug 10 2015, 09:11 PM Post #697
dess dess dess dess dess Posts: 4,036 Group: Merc-Yuri Clan Member #543 Joined: November 14, 2009 Gender: Fuerza Del Male Blog: Dr. Hoofs's Sing-Along Blog Country: #0# True Name: HFS, Hoofs	Saturos Jul 19 2015, 10:06 AM I doubt it, Hoofs GX ep 3 Maria has Serena's gear in the OP, so I gather they're going to figure out a way to repair the damaged gears. Hibiki is being pretty frustrating, though. I really appreciate some of the development the others are getting, though. It's like they finally remembered to characterize the FiS gears >_> Also, we just need Fine in here to save everyone and that beef stroganoff scene was unreal and kind of amazing So I'm just catching up and it's time for me to go "what" That's Phoenix right there not Hoofs you name-blind ferretweasel and I'm fairly certain this is like my first or maybe second post in the entire thread That all being said, I just read a bunch of dum shit (thank you based Boyd for defending truth and justice) *SOMEONE WAS LOOKING FOR A DESSPOSTER*



Seoulbowz	Aug 10 2015, 09:21 PM Post #698
Supergeil Posts: 19,233 Group: Sol Clan Member #54 Joined: May 28, 2006 Blog: Edeka Country: #79# True Name: Friedrich Liechtenstein Theme Song: https://youtu.be/jxVcgDMBU94	No, nobody was looking for one of those.



Gilgamesh	Aug 10 2015, 09:26 PM Post #699
solbowz Aurarius Posts: 33,599 Group: Venus Clan Member #380 Joined: October 3, 2008 Gender: King of Heroes Blog: Shattered Symbosis Country: #226# True Name: Space Boyd Theme Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h6lFNXzC1g	Dank Animemes Aug 10 2015, 09:11 PM (thank you based Boyd for defending truth and justice) It's what I do



Saturos	Aug 10 2015, 11:07 PM Post #700
heart-under-blade Posts: 36,354 Group: Iris Member #2 Joined: March 20, 2005 Gender: Male Country: #0# True Name: Saturos Theme Song: https://youtu.be/mh5vyvMGhqE	holy shit that episode GX ep 6 Really pleased with the writing of this episode, it took them long enough to explore some of this. It's like they realized "oh yeah these characters still have conflicts" that Symphogear G kind of glossed over mostly (from what I remember). It's edgy as [radio edit], but I do like that they're still flirting with the angst of being alone/being a sword. Also it's so edgy but I love it, Ignite designs are fantastic and waaay better than the ones they had demo'd. Carol getting adult form'd was pls, but I really liked both her memory!relic and four-elements fighting style, and that twist/suicide/alchemy spell at the end was pretty awesome. I think Boyd's right, it's a Touko-style body-hopping. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Elfie is just the latest in a long string of clones/body-hops, considering Carol is supposed to be centuries old, but doesn't look that old. Her gender was never really confirmed, either. And I think Elfie struggling with the inner darkness of Carol would be a neat parallel to what the Symphogears are going through, and then having the "parent issues" of both Carol herself as well as her dad. and those action scenes/that Inazuma Kick from Hibiki, so freaking great Colour me cautiously optimistic about the direction this is going, I really like that they've "killed" the primary antagonist at the halfway point. And I gather the curse will end up being key in some way.

Free Forums with no limits on posts or members. Learn More · Sign-up for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Temple of Illustrated Arts · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
…
34
35
36
…
50

Affiliates ↑