I found him interesting in FSN because he doesn't really come across as "evil" until quite later on, there's definitely something "off" about him but he holds true to his duties in the Grail war for the most part so seeing that other side of him where he's most definitely a villain has much more of an impact than if he was just "I'm an antagonist, therefore I am truuuu evil."

Episode 16:

- New OP
- That's a lot of blood
- Look at her, cool as a cucumber about this
- Father Mopey has a new mancrush now
- Gratuitous Catholicism
- Dobby has to punish himself for displeasing his Master
- No left hand because he broke his spear. Gotta love the honor between those two.
- Poor Lancer, though. That's honestly a really terrible end for the guy
- I gotta say this for proto-Homura, he's thorough. I admire the efficiency, as horrible as it is.
- So, what do you think of your master now, Saber?
- Even Albino Girl isn't pleased
- Let me guess, next up we get Kiritsugu's Episode 10
- To explain his motivations and redeem him as uguu protagonist moe sufferer
- Iri actually shows some backbone, nice
- Everyone loves crapping all over Saber's ideals
- So much despair
- So Kiritsugu's kind of like Sayaka too
- Nooo, waifu-chan~

Episode 17:

- Saber and Iri are cuties
- Look at Iri showing some independent thought and action
- She even gets her name back from me
- Tohsaka, back to further indoctrinate his daughter
- Father Mopey: "I am so high right now."
- Dangerous ladies
- Saber is one beheading away from being Celty now
- Japan really likes its homunculi
- Fr. Mopey, you can't mancrush on both WBG *and* Kiritsugu. Don't be greedy
- UGH PLS GO
- UGGGGGH
- Hahahaha, Sparkles *seriously* believed Tohsaka worshipped him?
- Look, stop posturing and make a contract already
- Wow, Tohsaka, makin' it real convenient there.
- UGGGGGH We're stuck with Fr. Mopey
- Watching Fate/Zero is suffering

Tokiomi really did try his best, but he was just too naive with everything, poor guy.

Too bad Archer's stats drop under Kirei so we don't get to see him at 100%.

I think that some of Homura's behavior which initially struck me as dismaying can be explained when you step back and remember her character arc. She starts as a fourteen year old girl with extreme self-esteem issues, sees her friend(s) die in front of her, makes one extremely rash choice in the heat of the moment, and ends up paying for that choice for years. She never gets a moment's rest, has to go through the stress of watching people she loves die because of her own inability to save them, and in the end her true wish is never fulfilled: Madoka contracts and Homura loses her. Even if it's a Good End for magical girls in general, it just leaves Homura in a new reality where her friend has never, does not, and will never exist, so she just grows more and more lonely.

And then we get to the events of the film, and it's some neat and understandable inner conflict because Homura consciously wants to respect Madoka's sacrifice, but her true desire is to just be with her friend and have a normal life without having to worry about magical girl stuff. And she's still doing her best to be strong, to the point of being willing to sacrifice herself to despair and to let the others kill her once she realizes that she's a witch.

And then comes the part where I just still can't quite follow her train of thought/logic/emotions/whatever. Because I guess the other girls fight to save Homura, and they break the isolation field, and I think they kill they Incubators? - That's the critical point, I guess, because if Madoka's still in danger of being controlled/observed by the Incubators, then some of what Homura does becomes a lot more understandable than if Homura just kind of rejects being take by Madoka/Law of the Cycle.

Does anyone else have thoughts or want to clarify this for me? It's that last twenty minutes or so of the film that I'm really having trouble understanding, because I can't quite follow Homura's motivations.

I think the main thing there is that there was no way to destroy all the eyes watching the isolation field. Kyubey sees everything, seemingly, even when not around, so the likelihood of the Incubators watching the event from a distance is likely.

Because of that, if Homura allowed Madoka to take her, the Law of Cycles would be revealed to Kyubey. He might not be able to do anything then, but eventually, as he said, they would find a way to undermine, control, or destroy it entirely. The only way to prevent this would be to ensure they never knew what happened: which, once the isolation field was broken, could only be done by erasing the event from history itself - by, once again, rewriting the universe so that it never happened.

Consequently, at the same time, Homura had the opportunity to help accomplish her original wish, in allowing Madoka to have a normal life, by (assumedly) taking on the burden of the Law of Cycles on herself (or something that accomplished the same effect).

Yeah, the more I read, the more that seems to make sense. Homura doing this out of selfish reasons pretty much flies in the face of everything she's ever done and striven for, while recreating the universe to save Madoka and give Madoka the normal life she's desired (see the last conversation between her and Homura before Homura confirms that she's a witch) is completely in character for Homura. At least, as far as I'm understanding the various interpretations.

[12/9/2013 9:59:56 PM] Aaron: you [radio edit]er are you online
[12/9/2013 10:00:37 PM] Aaron: Amy Lynn
[12/9/2013 10:00:37 PM] Aaron: Kyle
[12/9/2013 10:00:42 PM] Aaron: I NEED YOU
[12/9/2013 10:00:50 PM] Aaron: I think I have it figured out and I want to hear what you think
[12/9/2013 10:01:52 PM] Kyle: yesssssssssssssssssssss
[12/9/2013 10:01:58 PM] Kyle: give me your thoughts
[12/9/2013 10:02:15 PM] Aaron: so basically Taoism /saterrible
but basically yeah it's dualism/having cake and eating it too
[12/9/2013 10:02:31 PM] Aaron: Madoka said she never would have wanted to be separated from the world and would suffer for that, but she would allow herself to suffer
[12/9/2013 10:03:18 PM] Aaron: Madoka Magica normally leaves aside the human angle/love/desire/selfishness, which Homura then rises to claim and becomes a "demon"/"evil," splitting Madoka into her Godoka and Madoka halves so she can simultaneously exist as a divine figure while living out her human life
[12/9/2013 10:03:30 PM] Aaron: because Homura is selfish/loves
[12/9/2013 10:04:09 PM] Aaron: likewise we saw the whole time the magical girls being both their human and witch selves, so their worldly/spiritual selves, and then post Homura'd, witches and people both co-exist in the world in a happier/more balanced fashion
[12/9/2013 10:04:39 PM] Aaron: basically both "love for all that exists" and "personal love" are both allowed to have a voice
[12/9/2013 10:04:54 PM] Aaron: also holy shit so much resolution/fanservice/amazingness
[12/9/2013 10:05:01 PM] Aaron: SAYAKA ACKNOWLEDGING KYOUKO THE FEEEEELS
[12/9/2013 10:05:07 PM] Aaron: Mami and Charlotte with DAT DYNAMIC
[12/9/2013 10:05:10 PM] Aaron: witchform powers
[12/9/2013 10:05:19 PM] Aaron: maaaan, Rumble like, converged with a lot of this thematically kind of
[12/9/2013 10:05:24 PM] Aaron: your Homulilly was spot-on
[12/9/2013 10:05:29 PM] Kyle: see, I interpreted Homura's actions differently
[12/9/2013 10:05:39 PM] Aaron: Okay gogogo, what did you think
[12/9/2013 10:06:00 PM] Kyle: not so much as her selfishness for wanting Madoka to be with her again, but lashing out against Madoka's OWN selflessness
[12/9/2013 10:06:23 PM] Kyle: Madoka, being willing to sacrifice herself/her happiness for the world, and Homura being unable to accept that
[12/9/2013 10:06:45 PM] Kyle: so she forces Madoka back into a life that she can live
[12/9/2013 10:06:57 PM] Kyle: knowing that she's acting explicitly against Madoka's wishes
[12/9/2013 10:07:13 PM] Kyle: but doing so for what she sees as what's best for her
[12/9/2013 10:07:53 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Yeah... Considering that Homura was willing to remain a witch and have the others kill her, just to keep Madoka safe, she's still pretty big on doing what's best for Madoka/what she sees as best for Madoka.
[12/9/2013 10:08:22 PM] Kyle: yeah, with the knowledge that her doing that would result in her never seeing Madoka again
[12/9/2013 10:08:35 PM] Kyle: she willingly chose and fought for that
[12/9/2013 10:09:37 PM] Aaron: [Monday, December 09, 2013 10:06 PM] Kyle:

<<< not so much as her selfishness for wanting Madoka to be with her again, but lashing out against Madoka's OWN selflessnessYeah, that's pretty much what I meant. It's two sides of the same coin
[12/9/2013 10:09:54 PM] Aaron: Or rather, I find no contradiction in that
[12/9/2013 10:10:24 PM] Kyle: I read it as she was splitting Madoka so that she could have her in her own life again
[12/9/2013 10:10:55 PM] Aaron: Madoka and Homura are complementary principles, in conflict ("even you will someday be my enemy"), but still loving one another -- hence all the yinyang imagery, like the half-full/half-empty half-there/half-not there
[12/9/2013 10:11:03 PM] Kyle: which has always been against Homura's actions, she willingly sacrificed her relationship with Madoka to try and keep her safe in the series
[12/9/2013 10:11:40 PM] Kyle: also
[12/9/2013 10:11:41 PM] Aaron: Yeah, but Madoka said that she would be torn apart by being separated from everyone, and Homura's like "i should have never believed you'
[12/9/2013 10:11:55 PM] Kyle: you have no idea the mental sound I made when those red spider lilies popped up
[12/9/2013 10:12:09 PM] Aaron: also, Homura erasing herself was not to perserve Godoka per se, but to prevent the Incubators from controlling her
[12/9/2013 10:12:28 PM] Kyle: those are the same, really
[12/9/2013 10:12:50 PM] Kyle: Kyubey wanted the knowledge so that, at some point, they could neutralize the effect Godoka had, by whatever means
[12/9/2013 10:13:10 PM] Aaron: But I mean, not in support of Madoka being separate from the world/Godoka, just saving her in general
[12/9/2013 10:13:33 PM] Kyle: oh, no, I don't think Homura had any thoughts about splitting Godoka at that point
[12/9/2013 10:13:41 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: At which point?
[12/9/2013 10:13:54 PM] Kyle: while in the process of Homulillying it up
[12/9/2013 10:14:00 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Oh, yeah.
[12/9/2013 10:14:09 PM] Kyle: I don't think that idea formed until after the fight concluded and Madoka arrived to save her
[12/9/2013 10:14:17 PM] Aaron: consciously
[12/9/2013 10:14:49 PM] Aaron: Well, that we know of -- she says she was never going to let her go, as well as that scene I keep referring to in the field
remember the labyrinth is basically the unconscious: and what does her labyrinth do but basically split Madoka from Godoka and have her live happily in a normal world
[12/9/2013 10:14:57 PM] Aaron: remember Sayaka says "is wishing for that kind of thing really so bad?"
[12/9/2013 10:15:07 PM] Kyle: Madoka did that herself though
[12/9/2013 10:15:27 PM] Kyle: She gave her powers and memories to Sayaka and Nagisa in order to access Homulilly's barrier
[12/9/2013 10:15:43 PM] Aaron: yes, but in terms of the -shape- the labyrinth took
[12/9/2013 10:15:55 PM] Kyle: oh, yeah
[12/9/2013 10:16:03 PM] Kyle: but I mean
[12/9/2013 10:16:10 PM] Kyle: that's really been Homura's goal from the beginning
[12/9/2013 10:16:19 PM] Kyle: to give Madoka a normal life
[12/9/2013 10:16:22 PM] Aaron: Right
[12/9/2013 10:16:32 PM] Aaron: which is why I don't think splitting Godoka came out of left field
[12/9/2013 10:16:42 PM] Kyle: Oh no, not out of left field
[12/9/2013 10:16:44 PM] Aaron: at the time yeah, but in retrospect it makes sense
[12/9/2013 10:17:00 PM] Kyle: but I don't think the idea occurred to her to do that until moments before it happened
[12/9/2013 10:17:13 PM] Aaron: I'd have to rewatch the scene, but I'm pretty sure it's a bit of both
[12/9/2013 10:17:19 PM] Aaron: she became consciously aware of it at that moment
[12/9/2013 10:17:24 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Yeah.
[12/9/2013 10:17:25 PM] Aaron: but it was unconsciously repressed the whole time
[12/9/2013 10:17:36 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: And she probably didn't have the means to do it up until that point, anyway.
[12/9/2013 10:17:38 PM] Aaron: "I can finally do what I always wanted to -- never be separated from you again"
[12/9/2013 10:17:41 PM] Aaron: exactly.
[12/9/2013 10:18:15 PM] Kyle: I'm still not clear how she managed to do it, honestly
[12/9/2013 10:18:22 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I've seen various theories.
[12/9/2013 10:18:35 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I'm still weighing them to see which makes the most sense with canon n'at.
[12/9/2013 10:18:54 PM] Kyle: yeah, I think I mentioned the one using the energy of the meguca -> witch transformation to accomplish it
[12/9/2013 10:19:04 PM] Kyle: which only kinda makes sense to me
[12/9/2013 10:19:13 PM] Kyle: since the transformation never actually happened
[12/9/2013 10:19:25 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: And I think I mentioned the other I saw, which was something to do with the fact that Homura's wish was never quite fulfilled.
[12/9/2013 10:19:25 PM] Aaron: well, that hope-despair thing is a curse
and she had covered herself in curses
[12/9/2013 10:19:37 PM] Kyle: and as we've seen from Kyubey, the Law of Cycle doesn't allow that energy to be produced
[12/9/2013 10:19:52 PM] Kyle: yeah, the unfulfilled wish is probably the best
[12/9/2013 10:19:56 PM] Aaron: but she was separated from the law of the cycle for long enough for all that to build up
[12/9/2013 10:20:10 PM] Kyle: but the energy is from the transformation itself
[12/9/2013 10:20:12 PM] Aaron: well, she says so herself it wasn't a witch thing, but love
[12/9/2013 10:20:15 PM] Kyle: they all stopped her transformation
[12/9/2013 10:20:17 PM] Kyle: right
[12/9/2013 10:20:19 PM] Aaron: so it wasn't hope-> despair
[12/9/2013 10:20:25 PM] Aaron: it was something that transcends the two
[12/9/2013 10:20:32 PM] Aaron: love, which has both intermingled
[12/9/2013 10:21:16 PM] Kyle: also have a picture
http://i.imgur.com/E49wjrh.png
[12/9/2013 10:22:08 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I can't wait to spam the 200+ Madoka posts I have queued up for my Tumblr. So much cuteness, omg.
[12/9/2013 10:22:38 PM] Kyle: The whole existence of Homura as "evil" is also confusing
[12/9/2013 10:23:02 PM] Aaron: you're right to frame it in quote marks
[12/9/2013 10:23:04 PM] Kyle: since other than rebelling against Godoka, she doesn't seem to be doing anything
[12/9/2013 10:23:10 PM] Kyle: except something
[12/9/2013 10:23:19 PM] Kyle: involving the Incubators
[12/9/2013 10:23:22 PM] Aaron: I still think it's selfishness
[12/9/2013 10:23:29 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I've seen theorized that it's just Homura considering herself evil, since she's rebelling against Madoka- Yeah, like selfishness.
[12/9/2013 10:23:38 PM] Aaron: well, she curbstomped the Incubators, which was amazing
[12/9/2013 10:23:47 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: And, like, self-loathing colouring her perception of herself.
[12/9/2013 10:24:17 PM] Aaron: and I don't think the overall picture is that Homura is "evil"
[12/9/2013 10:24:31 PM] Aaron: look at how Sayaka reacts to seeing Hitomi and Kyousuke
[12/9/2013 10:24:49 PM] Aaron: is that "evil"?
[12/9/2013 10:24:56 PM] Kyle: depends
[12/9/2013 10:25:04 PM] Kyle: are what the machines do in the Matrix "evil"?
[12/9/2013 10:25:36 PM] Kyle: though that depends on whether or not you think Homura extended a barrier to envelop the entire universe, or whether she rewrote it
[12/9/2013 10:25:54 PM] Kyle: I see a lot of the former in theories, but don't know where it came from
[12/9/2013 10:26:18 PM] Kyle: other than the fact that, as a normal larval witch, she created an entire city in her barrier
[12/9/2013 10:26:22 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: It might explain easier where she got the power to do stuff.
[12/9/2013 10:26:32 PM] Kyle: that's true, actually
[12/9/2013 10:26:33 PM] Aaron: hmmmm
[12/9/2013 10:26:40 PM] Aaron: I think it's both
[12/9/2013 10:26:47 PM] Kyle: by placing the entire universe inside her own barrier, she becomes God
[12/9/2013 10:26:51 PM] Aaron: she kinda
dissolved the barrier between selfishness and unselfishness
[12/9/2013 10:27:00 PM] Aaron: and then they co-exist
[12/9/2013 10:27:02 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: And since she'd already seen the universe rewritten, she could even fool herself somewhat into thinking that she was doing the same thing.
[12/9/2013 10:27:21 PM] Aaron: so you see familiars playing happily with normal people, since there's no kind of curse/predation there anymore
[12/9/2013 10:27:28 PM] Aaron: they're just both a Thing
[12/9/2013 10:27:39 PM] Aaron: I think the distinction is meaningless anyway
[12/9/2013 10:27:50 PM] Aaron: I think it's rewriting, though
[12/9/2013 10:27:54 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: The familiars interacted with regular people in Homura's labyrinth anyway.
[12/9/2013 10:27:56 PM] Aaron: "you've seen this space before, incubator"
[12/9/2013 10:28:00 PM] Kyle: ...hmm, I forgot about those familiars
[12/9/2013 10:28:16 PM] Kyle: they appear as familiars at first, but then appear as normal birds
[12/9/2013 10:28:24 PM] Aaron: It's like everything has the spiritual/real side -- like Mami catching a cherry blossom, and it turns into a feather
[12/9/2013 10:28:34 PM] Kyle: that might imply Homura is basically making everyone see things as normal
[12/9/2013 10:28:44 PM] Kyle: same as when she was witching out
[12/9/2013 10:28:47 PM] Aaron: yeah. hence the balance -- the whole movie was all about humanizing witches
[12/9/2013 10:28:52 PM] Aaron: I looooooooved, btw
[12/9/2013 10:28:53 PM] Kyle:
[12/9/2013 10:29:06 PM] Aaron: the idea of Sayaka and Nagisa as "secretaries to Godoka"
[12/9/2013 10:29:12 PM] Kyle: actually, I really didn't get much of that
[12/9/2013 10:29:13 PM] Aaron: just broing out in heaven
[12/9/2013 10:29:25 PM] Aaron: What, humanizing witches?
[12/9/2013 10:29:28 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I enjoyed Sayaka's character. She really came into her own.
[12/9/2013 10:29:34 PM] Kyle: yeah, I didn't see it much
[12/9/2013 10:29:49 PM] Kyle: it's never clear just how much of what's going on with Homura is real or not
[12/9/2013 10:29:54 PM] Aaron: Really?
[12/9/2013 10:30:05 PM] Kyle: she never finished the transformation
[12/9/2013 10:30:10 PM] Aaron: Sayaka kinda gives the whole spiel of "is being a witch such a sin?"
[12/9/2013 10:30:15 PM] Aaron: Bebe and Sayaka are witches the whole time >_>
[12/9/2013 10:30:22 PM] Kyle: <_< no they aren't
[12/9/2013 10:30:25 PM] Kyle: they're dead
[12/9/2013 10:30:25 PM] Aaron: uh
[12/9/2013 10:30:31 PM] Kyle: they're basically valkyrie
[12/9/2013 10:30:32 PM] Aaron: yes, but they retain their witch sides
[12/9/2013 10:30:51 PM] Aaron: pretty obviously -- Sayaka's shadow is Ocktavia, they can control both selves, etc
[12/9/2013 10:31:09 PM] Aaron: and I think Sayaka's "She's hurting the most right now of all of us," thing regarding Homulilly
[12/9/2013 10:31:12 PM] Kyle: right, but that's more of an aspect of herself
[12/9/2013 10:31:15 PM] Aaron: exactly
[12/9/2013 10:31:21 PM] Aaron: it's acknowledging the witch as an aspect of the self
[12/9/2013 10:31:37 PM] Kyle: we saw already that, once the witch itself is born, there's no stopping it
[12/9/2013 10:31:43 PM] Kyle: most notably with Sayaka
[12/9/2013 10:31:45 PM] Aaron: I think you're a little too hungup on the moment of transformation -- Homulilly is effectively a witch the whole time
[12/9/2013 10:31:56 PM] Aaron: Yeah, but I think this is questioning that
[12/9/2013 10:32:05 PM] Aaron: kind of continuing what Kazumi magica starts
[12/9/2013 10:32:27 PM] Kyle: the transformation is the odd part, honestly
[12/9/2013 10:32:28 PM] Kyle: like
[12/9/2013 10:32:29 PM] Aaron: Homulilly shows how awful/horrible being a witch is with that whole maddening sequence of her suffering
[12/9/2013 10:32:41 PM] Aaron: I think once she realized she wasn't a magical girl, she witched out
[12/9/2013 10:32:44 PM] Kyle: Homura's Soul Gem never turns into a Grief Seed
[12/9/2013 10:32:52 PM] Kyle: so could you really call her a witch?
[12/9/2013 10:33:01 PM] Aaron: because she shoots her "soul gem" but she doesn't die
[12/9/2013 10:33:09 PM] Aaron: well, the whole thing is happening inside her soul gem proper
[12/9/2013 10:33:19 PM] Kyle: Right, the whole thing is effectively a dream
[12/9/2013 10:33:21 PM] Aaron: so even if the surface isn't transformed, inside she's basically a witch
[12/9/2013 10:33:31 PM] Aaron: the whole thing is a labyrinth
[12/9/2013 10:33:33 PM] Aaron: remember?
[12/9/2013 10:33:39 PM] Kyle: I know
[12/9/2013 10:33:46 PM] Kyle: but she's still existing outside the labyrinth
[12/9/2013 10:34:14 PM] Aaron: again, material/spiritual split
[12/9/2013 10:34:30 PM] Aaron: she isn't "physically" a witch, but for all intents and purposes, she's a witch on the spiritual level
[12/9/2013 10:34:53 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Does that tie back in to the isolation field, basically?
[12/9/2013 10:35:19 PM] Kyle: that's kind of my point, Satty: she's not completely a witch
[12/9/2013 10:35:27 PM] Aaron: probably, Amy
[12/9/2013 10:35:35 PM] Aaron: her soul is a witch, but it hasn't corrupted her body yet
[12/9/2013 10:35:36 PM] Kyle: since nothing physical has changed, the process can still be undone
[12/9/2013 10:35:46 PM] Kyle: which is more or less what happens
[12/9/2013 10:35:57 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Hm... I'm trying to remember, but I thought there was something in the Different Story that contradicts it...
[12/9/2013 10:36:00 PM] Aaron: we saw all sorts of soul gems prevented from interacting with host bodies in Kazumi
[12/9/2013 10:36:08 PM] Kyle: alternatively, she was never in danger at all of turning into a witch
[12/9/2013 10:36:13 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Or it might have been one o fhte other spinoffs...
[12/9/2013 10:36:25 PM] Aaron: but once the barrier happens, they formally witch physically
[12/9/2013 10:36:50 PM] Kyle: she says that her Soul Gem isn't tainted with despair, but love, so she becomes something else
[12/9/2013 10:37:16 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: "No, Homura, you are the demons!"
[12/9/2013 10:37:22 PM] Kyle: but then again, despair isn't necessary for a witch transformation
[12/9/2013 10:37:35 PM] Kyle: Madoka did it a bunch of times without despair
[12/9/2013 10:37:39 PM] Aaron: so yeah, I think we could say she gets that amount of power from becoming a demon -- both the hope built up over a hundred timelines, and the amount of curses she had inside, all for the sake of love
[12/9/2013 10:37:58 PM] Aaron: hope and despair both thus deriving from love
[12/9/2013 10:38:03 PM] Kyle: basically, she hacked her own karmic destiny
[12/9/2013 10:38:13 PM] Aaron: which we see with Sayaka (though I'm glad she was like "lolnope" to kyousuke)
[12/9/2013 10:38:19 PM] Aaron: so it was like Sayaka x100
[12/9/2013 10:38:26 PM] Aaron: yeah
[12/9/2013 10:38:38 PM] Kyle: side question
[12/9/2013 10:38:50 PM] Kyle: what did you make of her plan for the incubators?
[12/9/2013 10:39:13 PM] Aaron: oh yeah
[12/9/2013 10:39:34 PM] Aaron: wasn't focusing so much on that beyond "get fuk'd incubators"
[12/9/2013 10:40:24 PM] *** Kyle has changed the conversation topic to "Get Rek'd Godoka" ***
[12/9/2013 10:42:26 PM] Kyle: also
[12/9/2013 10:42:31 PM] Kyle: I want to point out
[12/9/2013 10:42:35 PM] Kyle: and I had Amy Lynn confirm
[12/9/2013 10:42:49 PM] Kyle: Nagisa's name is never mentioned in the movie proper (the subs, at least)
[12/9/2013 10:43:02 PM] Kyle: she was
[12/9/2013 10:43:07 PM] Kyle: such a useful addition
[12/9/2013 10:43:29 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Yeah. She uses it in place of a personal pronoun once or twice in the original Japanese, but that's it.
[12/9/2013 10:43:48 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Her Bebe form was fairly important, though.
[12/9/2013 10:43:50 PM] Kyle: I'm disappointed she didn't wind up being an antagonist
[12/9/2013 10:43:58 PM] Kyle: I was all ready to drop her onto my Rumble team
[12/9/2013 10:44:06 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I'm not, if only because it would have seemed a little predictable.
[12/9/2013 10:44:30 PM] Kyle: Her Bebe form really only seemed there in order to trigger the Mami fight, honestly
[12/9/2013 10:44:53 PM] Kyle: Sayaka alone could have handled the duty of safeguarding Godoka
[12/9/2013 10:45:09 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: That's true.
[12/9/2013 10:45:15 PM] Aaron: I think it was a nice touch, and good for Mami
[12/9/2013 10:45:33 PM] Kyle: <_< I thought it was creepy as [radio edit] honestly
[12/9/2013 10:45:34 PM] Aaron: death-as-friend
[12/9/2013 10:45:39 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Bebe also did add to the wtf atmosphere of the first third of things.
[12/9/2013 10:45:40 PM] Aaron: and yes, it is creepy as [radio edit]
[12/9/2013 10:45:45 PM] Aaron: which is what made it amazing
[12/9/2013 10:45:55 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: As a magical girl companion animal and, to the viewers, a really dissonant addition.
[12/9/2013 10:45:58 PM] Aaron: Madoka's really good at being simultaneously awesome/cute-creepy
[12/9/2013 10:46:05 PM] Kyle: yeah, I guess it's just more that having only her there seemed weird
[12/9/2013 10:46:06 PM] Aaron: also, red herring
[12/9/2013 10:46:13 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: That whole stuff with the nightmares was creepy as radio edit. And the cake song.
[12/9/2013 10:46:18 PM] Aaron: omg.
[12/9/2013 10:46:19 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: The radio editing cake song.
[12/9/2013 10:46:19 PM] Kyle: that was
[12/9/2013 10:46:20 PM] Aaron: the cake song
[12/9/2013 10:46:21 PM] Kyle: what
[12/9/2013 10:46:38 PM] Aaron: there's so much butthurt about this movie, I love it
[12/9/2013 10:46:38 PM] Kyle: speaking of the cake song
[12/9/2013 10:46:42 PM] Aaron: someone linked me to this:
http://seventhstyle.com/2013/12/08/rebellion-ruins-the-madoka-name/
[12/9/2013 10:46:58 PM] Kyle: http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=2088466
[12/9/2013 10:48:03 PM] Aaron: omg, love demonura's pose
[12/9/2013 10:48:06 PM] Aaron: she's just like
[12/9/2013 10:48:08 PM] Aaron: spraaaaawl
[12/9/2013 10:48:14 PM] Aaron: *gives no [radio edit]s*
[12/9/2013 10:48:16 PM] Kyle: *akuma homura
[12/9/2013 10:48:32 PM] Kyle: it's apparently the official term
[12/9/2013 10:48:32 PM] Aaron: hahahah
[12/9/2013 10:48:37 PM] Aaron: clever
[12/9/2013 10:49:04 PM] Kyle: I still am pretty fond of Homucifer though
[12/9/2013 10:49:13 PM] Aaron: YES. I loved that theme
[12/9/2013 10:49:28 PM] Aaron: insofar as Madoka Magica was a Christ Story, this "Rebellion" is the Fall
[12/9/2013 10:49:31 PM] Kyle: the comparison itself kinda breaks down quite a bit, though
[12/9/2013 10:49:37 PM] Aaron: kind of
[12/9/2013 10:49:43 PM] Aaron: I thought it was pretty good
[12/9/2013 10:49:46 PM] Kyle: since Homura's motivations for rebellion are completely different from Lucifer's
[12/9/2013 10:50:14 PM] Aaron: Lucifer's always associated with desire and selfishness, and the kind of fall was all about "I know better than you/I won't agree with your plan"
[12/9/2013 10:50:45 PM] Aaron: I thought it was a touching re-examination of that relationship
[12/9/2013 10:51:01 PM] Aaron: so it breaks it, but deliberately, I think
[12/9/2013 10:51:14 PM] Aaron: since God-Lucifer is kind of like, the ultimately irreconciable binary
[12/9/2013 10:51:26 PM] Aaron: and this, rather fittingly, humanizes even that
[12/9/2013 10:51:58 PM] Kyle: also also
[12/9/2013 10:52:07 PM] Kyle: dat transformation sequence
[12/9/2013 10:52:08 PM] Kyle: what
[12/9/2013 10:52:27 PM] Aaron: which one?
[12/9/2013 10:52:36 PM] Kyle: girl -> meguca
[12/9/2013 10:52:40 PM] Kyle: x5
[12/9/2013 10:52:40 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Well, since this is Homura's subconscious/labyrinth, she must have been a Sailor Moon fan or something. >_>
[12/9/2013 10:52:41 PM] Aaron: the weirdly prolonged scene in the beginning?
[12/9/2013 10:52:47 PM] Kyle: yes
[12/9/2013 10:52:48 PM] Aaron: Yeah that was kinda
too much
[12/9/2013 10:52:49 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: And/or Princess Tutu fan.
[12/9/2013 10:52:56 PM] Aaron: ^ the latter
[12/9/2013 10:53:09 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I could see the point of it, but the length was the problem.
[12/9/2013 10:53:10 PM] Aaron: the only necessary part was the girls ripping out of their bodies/ripping into and through their witch selves
[12/9/2013 10:53:21 PM] Kyle: yeah, that part was great
[12/9/2013 10:53:29 PM] Aaron: the frameflash of their witch names was great for kind of foreshadowing the coming sympathy
[12/9/2013 10:53:29 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: 'Cause that first part up through that nightmare fight was all about establishing how gr8 it is to be a magical girl.
[12/9/2013 10:53:38 PM] Kyle: apparently
[12/9/2013 10:53:45 PM] Kyle: Homulilly's name was showing up in runes within the first minute
[12/9/2013 10:53:49 PM] Kyle: or two
[12/9/2013 10:53:53 PM] Aaron: I saw that, I believe
[12/9/2013 10:54:06 PM] Aaron: I forget where, but I noticed the witch runes
[12/9/2013 10:54:31 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Speaking of stuff in the first minute or two, the very beginning of the movie, would you say that's basically the point when Homura is first becoming a witch? Or symbolic of that or whatever?
[12/9/2013 10:54:32 PM] Kyle: there were
[12/9/2013 10:54:33 PM] Kyle: a lot
[12/9/2013 10:54:35 PM] Kyle: the wiki has them
[12/9/2013 10:55:03 PM] Aaron: I actually think
[12/9/2013 10:55:07 PM] Aaron: okay, guys, help me out
[12/9/2013 10:55:10 PM] Kyle: I'd say that's the beginning, yeah
[12/9/2013 10:55:17 PM] Aaron: probably it happened in the post-credits scene
[12/9/2013 10:55:18 PM] Kyle: Timeline i
[12/9/2013 10:55:18 PM] Aaron: of the last movie
[12/9/2013 10:55:24 PM] Aaron: the 2nd
[12/9/2013 10:55:30 PM] Kyle: nah, I don't think that
[12/9/2013 10:55:36 PM] Aaron: when it has Homulilly walking through the desert towards the wraiths and then witches out
[12/9/2013 10:55:41 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Those wings in that scene...
[12/9/2013 10:55:41 PM] Kyle: I think Homura exhausted her Soul Gem through fighting
[12/9/2013 10:55:44 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: They were pretty witchy.
[12/9/2013 10:55:48 PM] Kyle: but it could be
[12/9/2013 10:55:50 PM] Aaron: Yeah, it was definitely witch.
[12/9/2013 10:55:54 PM] Kyle: they never really explained that
[12/9/2013 10:56:06 PM] Aaron: It has the same colour scheme/style as Akuma at the end
[12/9/2013 10:56:08 PM] Aaron: ALSO
[12/9/2013 10:56:10 PM] Aaron: the OP
[12/9/2013 10:56:25 PM] Aaron: is flipping through labyrinth (happiness, garden, river) and Homura in the desert (reality)
[12/9/2013 10:56:38 PM] Aaron: and whereever her body is is pretty wasteland
[12/9/2013 10:56:50 PM] Kyle: oh yeah
[12/9/2013 10:57:02 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: That seems to fit.
[12/9/2013 10:57:22 PM] Kyle: I just figured the ending of the series was her starting basically a "last stand" kind of thing
[12/9/2013 10:58:02 PM] Aaron: also, I rofl'd at homura shooting herself in the face
[12/9/2013 10:58:03 PM] Kyle: her wings could still be related to her reformed wish-results
[12/9/2013 10:58:19 PM] Aaron: "I guess that answers how a magical girl reacts to non-soul gem damage"
[12/9/2013 10:58:27 PM] Kyle: since while her initial wish remained intact, the effects it had on her powers seemed to change
[12/9/2013 10:58:50 PM] Kyle: but idk
[12/9/2013 10:59:48 PM] Kyle: I'm just not sure how she could witch out there, manage to take out all the wraiths, and then still wind up under Kyubey's experiment before getting collected by Madoka
[12/9/2013 11:00:05 PM] Kyle: that seems like a really drawn out process
[12/9/2013 11:00:45 PM] Aaron: I forget, what was the opening scene you were thinking of?
[12/9/2013 11:01:08 PM] Kyle: me?
[12/9/2013 11:01:59 PM] Aaron: yeah, when she goes witch in the beginning
[12/9/2013 11:03:07 PM] Kyle: I wasn't thinking of a real-world scene, but rather the start of Timeline i
[12/9/2013 11:03:28 PM] Kyle: with Madoka waking up, Homura transferring in, etc
[12/9/2013 11:03:46 PM] Aaron: oh, yeah
[12/9/2013 11:04:06 PM] Aaron: I think that was immediately post-witch
[12/9/2013 11:04:07 PM] Kyle: given how many times she went through those events, the beginning of an imaginary timeline seems appropriate to mark the beginning of her witching
[12/9/2013 11:04:23 PM] Aaron: the witching 2 hours
[12/9/2013 11:04:40 PM] Kyle: yeah the whole process of the witching is weird
[12/9/2013 11:04:48 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being casually drops this here: http://images.puella-magi.net/4/4e/Madoka_Portable_-_Madoka_invites_Homura_for_dinner_English_translation.png?20120419141651
[12/9/2013 11:04:55 PM] Kyle: considering Kyubey even says she hasn't transformed yet
[12/9/2013 11:05:07 PM] Aaron: hahaha
[12/9/2013 11:05:15 PM] Aaron: well, I think it goes back to the spiritual/material thing
[12/9/2013 11:05:36 PM] Aaron: might be me reading my own thesis work/philosophies into it, but everything seemed to click for me
[12/9/2013 11:05:52 PM] Aaron: she hasn't transformed yet (physically), but she's clearly a witch
[12/9/2013 11:06:06 PM] Aaron: so we're seeing from the other side of the soul gem what that transformation looks like
[12/9/2013 11:06:09 PM] Aaron: in super slow motion
[12/9/2013 11:06:12 PM] Aaron: starting with hope
[12/9/2013 11:06:14 PM] Aaron: and ending in despair
[12/9/2013 11:06:57 PM] Kyle: I think the part I want to watch the most is the whole conversation with Kyubey after Homura realizes she's witching
[12/9/2013 11:07:08 PM] Kyle: there was a lot that got talked about there
[12/9/2013 11:07:17 PM] Kyle: and I got pretty distracted by all the stuff going on
[12/9/2013 11:08:44 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I think I found some gifsets of that...
[12/9/2013 11:09:50 PM] Kyle: but ugh, chrono needs to see it
[12/9/2013 11:10:11 PM] Kyle: there were some hilarious parallels for ideas that I had for Homulilly down the line in Rumbleverse
[12/9/2013 11:10:37 PM] Aaron: Yeah, there's some stuff I'd like to rewatch there as well.
[12/9/2013 11:10:42 PM] Aaron: chrono is going to [radio edit]ing love it
[12/9/2013 11:10:45 PM] Aaron: he's all about dualism
[12/9/2013 11:10:53 PM] Kyle: and bunbuns
[12/9/2013 11:11:15 PM] Kyle: and kyouko/sayaka goodness
[12/9/2013 11:11:36 PM] Kyle: he's gonna shit himself when he makes the connection that sayaka is a valkyrie
[12/9/2013 11:11:38 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: help i can't stop browsing the homumado tag on tumblr
[12/9/2013 11:11:42 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: like seriously
[12/9/2013 11:11:45 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: too much cuteness
[12/9/2013 11:12:58 PM] Aaron: man amy lynn
[12/9/2013 11:13:03 PM] Aaron: that hip bump that madoka does to homura
[12/9/2013 11:13:14 PM] Kyle: so much hnnnng
[12/9/2013 11:13:16 PM] Aaron: and oh my gooood, Sayaka delicately twining her fingers around Kyouko
[12/9/2013 11:13:23 PM] Aaron: "I did have one regret."
[12/9/2013 11:13:29 PM] Aaron: Chrono is literally going to die
[12/9/2013 11:13:32 PM] Aaron: when he gets to that moment
[12/9/2013 11:13:38 PM] Aaron: and then Nagisa ruining the mood
[12/9/2013 11:14:10 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Incidentally, that's the point where Nagisa calls herself by name.
[12/9/2013 11:14:57 PM] Kyle: this is why you died in that hospital, nagisa
[12/9/2013 11:15:05 PM] Kyle: you ruin everything
[12/9/2013 11:15:21 PM] Aaron: cheeeeeeeese
[12/9/2013 11:15:40 PM] Aaron: but yeah there's a beautiful symmetry in
[12/9/2013 11:15:56 PM] Aaron: Charlotte killing Mami in the former timeline, and being her best friend in the new one
[12/9/2013 11:17:33 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: *finds post with Madoka and Homura cosplayers kissing* Now that's dedication to your ship, or two girlfriends with the best couples cosplay.
[12/9/2013 11:18:11 PM] Aaron: There was a homura-Madoka cosplayer set at the show (same who were there last time), I snapped a picture this time, though xP
[12/9/2013 11:23:07 PM] Aaron: so
[12/9/2013 11:23:10 PM] Aaron: post this convo to topic?
[12/9/2013 11:23:28 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Sure!
[12/9/2013 11:24:09 PM] Aaron: speaking of which, imma read your guys'
[12/9/2013 11:24:19 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Also, poll: what should I call my massive Madoka Tumblr reblogging spree, Madopocalypse or Walpostisnacht?
[12/9/2013 11:25:12 PM] Kyle: I wouldn't post it yet
[12/9/2013 11:25:24 PM] Kyle: I'd wait until Chrono's seen it
[12/9/2013 11:25:34 PM] Aaron: Well, it'll be spoilered
[12/9/2013 11:25:40 PM] Aaron: and chrono can read the conversation then
[12/9/2013 11:25:52 PM] Aaron: I find it interesting you two were both keenly against the idea of homura being selfish
[12/9/2013 11:26:14 PM] Kyle: it doesn't fit her, really
[12/9/2013 11:26:35 PM] Kyle: like, that was probably the first thought that stabilized itself after the movie
[12/9/2013 11:26:41 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Well, I'll admit that I fangirl her enough that I don't want to put stock in too negative an interpretation. But as Kyle points out, it doesn't fit anyway.
[12/9/2013 11:26:42 PM] Kyle: that she wasn't doing it for herself
[12/9/2013 11:27:02 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: She's done *everything* for Madoka, even if it makes her look bad to Madoka and gets in the way of her own desires.
[12/9/2013 11:27:24 PM] Kyle: I'd call it far more of...arrogance isn't the right word, but something close to that
[12/9/2013 11:28:43 PM] Aaron: well, witches are kind of the "return of the repressed"
[12/9/2013 11:29:06 PM] Aaron: Sayaka goes from putting up a facade to openly shouting "LOOK AT ME" and lashing out at everyone
[12/9/2013 11:29:59 PM] Aaron: I think it was a case of her selfishness; her knowledge of what Madoka really wants, even if Madoka won't admit it; and necessity from the incubators aligning
[12/9/2013 11:30:50 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Yeah, I think those different factors all came together in the end.
[12/9/2013 11:31:17 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Oh, what do you think? Good stopping point for the series, or should there be more?
[12/9/2013 11:31:37 PM] Aaron: I thought it was a good stopping point, but apparently Urobutcher has already confirmed more
[12/9/2013 11:31:43 PM] Aaron: I don't want it to be a milking thing (worry)
[12/9/2013 11:31:57 PM] Kyle: Well, he's said before he will only continue it if he has ideas
[12/9/2013 11:31:58 PM] Aaron: also, kyle, the fact you got a homulilly card is
just too perfect
[12/9/2013 11:32:03 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I thought/hoped that I heard they'd only continue if- Yeah.
[12/9/2013 11:32:20 PM] Kyle: Amy Lynn and I p much had the exact same thought when I flipped it over.
[12/9/2013 11:32:33 PM] Kyle: "Oh, Homur- THAT HAIR IS WHITE."
[12/9/2013 11:32:47 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Snap, that reminds me I want to call the Hollywood and see if they have any leftover cards they can sell/give me. >_>
[12/9/2013 11:32:52 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I want the rest of them.
[12/9/2013 11:33:15 PM] Kyle: but yeah, getting the Homulilly card, the entire story being about Homura's transformation into a witch
[12/9/2013 11:33:17 PM] Aaron: Every card they were giving away there was the same. (worry)
[12/9/2013 11:33:23 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: =O
[12/9/2013 11:33:24 PM] Kyle: that movie was made for me
[12/9/2013 11:33:25 PM] Aaron: and you RPing Homulilly
[12/9/2013 11:33:34 PM] Aaron: http://dalian.7thstyle.com/2013/12/madoka-magica-rebellion-movie-3-review-seventhstyle-002-614x409.jpg
[12/9/2013 11:33:37 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Yeah, though, that was super fitting.
[12/9/2013 11:33:37 PM] Aaron: this is what mine looked like
[12/9/2013 11:33:54 PM] Aaron: again, appropriate because
I just spent an RP going through the Sayaka-Kyouko relationship
[12/9/2013 11:34:07 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Yeah. ^_^
[12/9/2013 11:34:10 PM] Aaron: although in canon, it was Sayaka
who was the senpai
[12/9/2013 11:34:17 PM] Aaron: holy shit I can't get over how badass Sayaka was
[12/9/2013 11:34:21 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: I wish I'd gotten one of the ones with Madoka.
[12/9/2013 11:34:22 PM] Kyle: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/The_Rebellion_Story#Signboards
all the others
[12/9/2013 11:34:30 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Sayaka was pretty awesome in this.
[12/9/2013 11:34:41 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: She's risen a rank in my favourite magical girls.
[12/9/2013 11:34:44 PM] Kyle: my only regret
[12/9/2013 11:34:49 PM] Kyle: is that Homura lost to Mami
[12/9/2013 11:34:55 PM] Kyle: so I can't rub it in Boyd's face
[12/9/2013 11:34:59 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Now it's Homura = Madoka > Kyouko > Sayaka > Mami
[12/9/2013 11:35:14 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Haha, well, he'll never know until he sees the movie, at least.
[12/9/2013 11:35:58 PM] Aaron: those signs are great @_@
[12/9/2013 11:36:20 PM] Kyle: Also, Aaron, that post about the picture was supposed to be a fakeout
[12/9/2013 11:36:37 PM] Kyle: it was supposed to make you rage that I'd spoiled Homulilly's presence in the movie
[12/9/2013 11:36:44 PM] Kyle: and then make you calm down when you saw the pic
[12/9/2013 11:36:48 PM] Aaron: *rolls eyes*
[12/9/2013 11:36:52 PM] Kyle: and then make you rage again when you saw the movie
[12/9/2013 11:37:01 PM] Aaron: I didn't even assume that it was in the movie
[12/9/2013 11:37:08 PM] Aaron: so, troll failed =P
[12/9/2013 11:41:12 PM] Aaron: so, post this convo yet?
[12/9/2013 11:41:17 PM] Aaron: we'll add Chrono in after he sees it
[12/9/2013 11:41:29 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Sure.
[12/9/2013 11:42:13 PM] Aaron: can I
[12/9/2013 11:42:13 PM] Aaron: http://images.puella-magi.net/4/41/Rebellion_hanging_scroll.png?20131010233842
[12/9/2013 11:42:15 PM] Aaron: please own this
[12/9/2013 11:42:45 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Cuties~
[12/9/2013 11:42:46 PM] Kyle: No.
[12/9/2013 11:45:55 PM] Aaron: Apparently Rebellion grossed 1,781,051,800 yen in Japan
[12/9/2013 11:47:29 PM] Aaron: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Runes:The_Rebellion_Story
[12/9/2013 11:47:33 PM] Aaron: rune translations
[12/9/2013 11:49:11 PM] Kyle: [Monday, December 09, 2013 10:54 PM] Kyle:

<<< the wiki has them
[12/9/2013 11:49:37 PM] Kyle: the only runes I know are the ones that spell Homulilly
[12/9/2013 11:56:27 PM] Aaron: Q: Was there any new chair metaphors?
A: Yes, remember the cuddling scene in the Movie opening? Think of an extremely screwed/gory version of it. One of it, shows Madoka standing up, doing a cross, Jesus crucified-like post and fall down, motionless and lifeless.
[12/9/2013 11:56:30 PM] Aaron: I loved that scene
[12/9/2013 11:57:10 PM] Kyle: That Q&A is atrocious
[12/9/2013 11:57:34 PM] Aaron: It is
[12/9/2013 11:57:41 PM] Aaron: It really is
[12/9/2013 11:57:44 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Where's this Q&A?
[12/9/2013 11:58:37 PM] Kyle: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/The_Rebellion_Story/Q%26A
[12/9/2013 11:59:12 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Is this just some fan's write-up?
[12/9/2013 11:59:22 PM] Kyle: I have no idea
[12/9/2013 11:59:25 PM] Kyle: but it seems that way
[12/9/2013 11:59:53 PM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Lol, that wiki.
[12:00:02 AM] Amy Lynn the Bad Idea Cont(r)act Being: Soooo much speculation just dumped into the bodies of pages.
[12:00:20 AM] Aaron: "Prior to the movie events and at the beginning of the anime series, the universe was first 'Atheistic' (the Mahou Shoujo system was in place and there was no concept of hope, it was ruled by despair), after the anime series ended the universe went to a transformation and became 'Monoistic' (Madoka became the concept of hope and put in place the Law of Cycles). "Rebellion" expands the universe by transforming it once again, and introducing a 'Dualism' system in place. If Madoka represents the concept of hope (selfless love), then Homura represent the concept of love (selfish love)."
[12:00:27 AM] Aaron: Yay, the conclusion I arrived it! (heart)
[12:01:34 AM] Kyle: I personally see less of a dualist system and more of a wax/wane system
[12:02:12 AM] Kyle: Godoka still exists as the Law of Cycles but seems more of a pure force now that Madoka was removed, and no longer a person
[12:02:28 AM] Kyle: Thus, leaving Homura as the one in power
[12:02:52 AM] Kyle: since both Homura and Madoka could not be in power at the same time
[12:04:10 AM] Aaron: True, Akuma's maintaining it, but I'm sure the balance will be restored once they live out their lives
[12:04:11 AM] Aaron: maybe
[12:04:28 AM] Aaron: not looking at the persons but the ideals, it's pretty dualist
[12:04:34 AM] Aaron: Madoka is simultaneously Godoka and herself
[12:04:52 AM] Kyle: I think Homura knows a balance will never be restored there, judging by her line about becoming Madoka's enemy
[12:05:12 AM] Kyle: but yeah, there's obviously a lot of parallels drawn between the two
[12:07:59 AM] Aaron: oh, that's what I meant
[12:08:21 AM] Aaron: it's changeable dualism, so more taoism/manichanism
[12:08:28 AM] Aaron: well
[12:08:36 AM] Aaron: more taoism than manichianism
[12:08:44 AM] Aaron: it's pushpull

I support the aforestated interpretations! :3

Madoka is clearly the valkyrie and magical girls get to be einherjar! <3

Too bad Homura Loki'd them. Ofc that's stretching it, this is a buddhist/taoist/christian parable, Nordic fatalism doesn't play into it at all internally.

Also note that for example Homura is material, Madoka was immaterial. The devil walks among us!

And Sayaka is still in possession of a soul gem (note the ring), so I think Homura kept her around to either watch (if she's feeling mean spirited, given that from Homura's perspective, Sayaka's breakdowns lead to Madoka's demise in most cases) or be prosecution (what I think is Homura's reason).

However I will note that Homura herself admitted (at least in my subs) that she thinks destroying the world is a fine idea (recall how she wanted to make that pact with Madoka earlier) and only broke up around Madoka when Madoka confessed she would protect the world, which is what made Homura declare that they'll end up as enemies.

So yeah Homura appears to fully expect that she'll destroy the universe, and even seems to relish the prospect.

I would say the worst punishment to Kyubey would be giving him/them emotions like us, so they realize how horrible they've been all along, incidentally. Hundreds of millions of years of guilt would do that.

Ok I'm done for nao.

Quote:

 

However I will note that Homura herself admitted (at least in my subs) that she thinks destroying the world is a fine idea (recall how she wanted to make that pact with Madoka earlier) and only broke up around Madoka when Madoka confessed she would protect the world, which is what made Homura declare that they'll end up as enemies.

Was this during their exchange at the end, on the skyline? Because that was, in the official sub, Homura saying "Do you value order and stability over desire?" and Madoka saying she'd choose order and stability every time, and THAT being where Homura says that they'll end up as enemies "and yet even so" she'll still love Madoka <3

What was the subgroup you used?