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Mafia Forum
Topic Started: Jul 5 2012, 10:18 AM (3,742 Views)
Hisui
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Seccy "no fun allowed" Secundum

Ninja Steve
Jul 8 2012, 10:09 PM
I honestly see this thread as nothing more than an attempt by someone to stir up trouble where none had existed before. (I consider myself an expert on such thing, for potentially obvious reasons.)

Honest show of hands: how many people who posted in this thread wouldn't have worried about it if this thread hadn't been created?
Can't tell if srs. :werebarret:
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Saelnaha
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Let's just wait and see what happens.

Seccy
Jul 9 2012, 01:50 AM
Ninja Steve
Jul 8 2012, 10:09 PM
I honestly see this thread as nothing more than an attempt by someone to stir up trouble where none had existed before. (I consider myself an expert on such thing, for potentially obvious reasons.)

Honest show of hands: how many people who posted in this thread wouldn't have worried about it if this thread hadn't been created?
Can't tell if srs. :werebarret:
I may be an idiot the greater vast majority of the time, but even I know better than to post ambiguous joke posts in a suggestion forum.

If I was joking, it would be more obvious. :awe:
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Hisui
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Seccy "no fun allowed" Secundum

Yeah, except this wasn't a joke post.
I'm completely serious.
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leaf
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Crimson Leaf Vermillion

...and so was steve, so your point is moot.

Honestly, either a new subforum or leaving it the way it is now... either would be fine, I think. Personally, if it was given a new subforum, I would just make a new tab for it and use it exclusively for mafia stuff. But... others might prefer to just keep it the way it is now, since they don't need to dive in as far if it's in the main part of the epic adventures forum. And of course, for the people that browse using the active topics listing, this doesn't affect them either way.
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Princess Emi
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I'm the motherfactoring princess

and apparently I'm not the only one that thinks Mafia is kind of squishing everything around it by being in the RP forum. :I do we even have a single active RP at the moment? which may not be entirely mafia's fault, but I just don't think mafia's doing anyone not playing it any good by being in the RP forum at all.

I'll have Isk post his opinions after he's back from work. he's pretty much got the same outlook as of late.
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Well, it's natural to have differing opinions. I think I'm leaning to a subforum for Mafia within Epic Adventures - it's still accessible from the main page, but it wouldn't squish the RPs as much...
Though, I am starting to lean towards a front-page index for Mafia -- at least it would get the other RPs some front page coverage, as Emi says...
And also probably collapsing CWR and AoA into Epic Adventures, since I think those actually hurt more than help those RPs.

Fall of Mars is still active, Emi. It's indestructible!
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Bane Martius Agni
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Archon Agni, of Clan Martius

Saturos
Jul 8 2012, 11:50 PM
Given the CWR and AoA subforums, there's certainly precedent. ^^; And we might just fold those two forums back into the RP section. Maybe they'd be less secluded that way.
NO YOU WHORE
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Think about it, Bane. How many new people do you attract to an RP if it's not constantly showing up with the others/is tucked away in its own subforum? *tilts head* But, we can keep it, too. It makes no difference to me~
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Thorion Martius Pele
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Greatest of Kradenette Heroes

I'll only support this if MAFIA becomes something other than a vaguely familiar alternate version of Hangin' Harry.
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Necare
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Fallen Angel

One problem I'd have with that, Satty, is that while you'd be creating a subforum for mafia games, since they've gotten big enough to be their own thing, you'd be folding CWverse and AoA back into the general RP board, despite the fact that the reason they got their own subforums in the first place is the same one being given for the mafia games; they became so detailed and involved that they warranted separate boards. So retracting that separation from CW and AoA while granting it to mafia games just seems...inconsistent, to me.

There's also the fact that I just do not think this should be an issue either way. I pose this as a genuine question, but does this seriously matter to a lot of people on the Temple? Why is this suddenly a thing that we need to deal with? The argument that mafia games are somehow "burying" genuine RPs and taking attention away from them is, and I say this with as much respect as I can muster, horseshit. I was looking at the main Temple page, and the most recent thread in the Epic Adventures board was Ryu and Tan's mafia game. So you know what I did? I clicked on the board and lo and behold, I saw at least five different roleplays that have been posted in within the past couple weeks, some as recently as today. So the next time Boyd posts in Four Aces are we all going to start complaining that that RP is somehow choking the life out of things like Fall of Mars and Quest for the Cure just because that's the thread we see on the main page?

Ryu and Tan's game is the only one running right now. The casual mafia game just wrapped up and unless I missed something, that has been the first and only time that we've had more than one mafia game running at once on the Temple. But I still see people posting in RPs. The prevalence of mafia games has not caused me to spontaneously forget that there are other things in the roleplay board, and if I want to find them, I'll make the sacrifice of clicking a couple times to get to the RP I want instead of waiting around for someone else to post and bring it to the main page for me. We have three pages of RPs in Epic Adventures, and you don't even have to go halfway down the first one before you get to some that haven't seen posts since last year. That's not because of mafia, it's because people lose interest and roleplays die, and that's something everyone here knows. People will post in roleplays that they continue to have a vested interest in, as evidenced by the fact that we have people posting in roleplays right now. People are also interested in mafia games, and thus, they post in mafia games.

Maybe it's the amount that's causing this argument. I have no idea. A mafia game with interested, active players can proceed at a nice rapid clip, but even with games that have lagged for weeks, we've still managed to have more than 30 in less than half the time it's taken to bring FoM to its climax. Yet people are still posting in FoM and mafia alike. Just because the nature of the mafia games allows us to host more than one every five years does not mean it is getting in the way of roleplays. And if any of you here can be put off from participating in a roleplay just because you have to click your left mouse button a couple extra times, I don't really think you could have been all that attached to it to begin with.


:luna:
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Dracobolt
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Incorrigible

Necare echoes all my thoughts exactly and far more eloquently than I could have.

:mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn:
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Bane Martius Agni
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Archon Agni, of Clan Martius

Four Aces is a whore and killed Clan Wars. I demand it be locked and then purged. And then we make fun of its participants.
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Haha, oh, it's not that there's a need for it. I just like a bit of neatness sometimes. xP

Also Necare, AoA would be folded up because it's not active anymore, though there are rumours of a reboot. CWR's worldbuilding topics aren't really used as much now, so it's just the main RP.

But again, I'm fine any way. =P If it changes, cool, if it doesn't, that is also cool.
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Raseren
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hello darkness my old friend

Well said Necare.
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Iskveda
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Unlimited Prinny Works

Realistically, from my point of view... Mafia being in the RP forum just feels generally stifling. I go in and look, seeing if anything new has begun or been posted, and I find two or three Mafia-related topics staring back at me from proposals, discussion, and the main index. There's almost something just in general discouraging about seeing that, as a general RP-guy.

I don't mind mafia, and though I do have negative opinions on it in mind, this is not the olace for it. However, I don't quite imagine that I am the only one who feels just a bit disheartened seeing Mafia always being on the top of the major AE subforums. Though that in iself might be grounds enough for its own forum. Rather than "removing it from the RP section", giving it a section of its own in recognitiin of it having become extremely popular in comparison to the RP section.
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Princess Emi
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I'm the motherfactoring princess

wow as unoffensive as it was apparently supposed to be I really don't think calling the opinions of people horseshit is a good idea

I don't trust the temple at large nearly enough to think my opinion matters. so I'm going to suck up being quite annoyed by that, and just say that other opinions aren't going to change or cease existing just because someone calls them shit. okay? okay.

Necare's opinion is just that. I read it all, and I still disagree with what he says.

I'm very aware not everyone can be pleased. but jesus christ this feels really oppressive and that is part of why I highly dislike mafia games in general to begin with.
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Jackal
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Come and Take It - Temple Tsundere

Alright, putting my hat in here for a second:

Why not do some kind of trial period of, say, two weeks for both solutions? Make Mafia a subforum of Epic Adventures for two weeks, then make it a subforum of the RP area, and see how it goes?
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Necare
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Fallen Angel

Emi Sugoi Strider
Jul 10 2012, 04:56 PM
wow as unoffensive as it was apparently supposed to be I really don't think calling the opinions of people horseshit is a good idea

I don't trust the temple at large nearly enough to think my opinion matters. so I'm going to suck up being quite annoyed by that, and just say that other opinions aren't going to change or cease existing just because someone calls them shit. okay? okay.

Necare's opinion is just that. I read it all, and I still disagree with what he says.

I'm very aware not everyone can be pleased. but jesus christ this feels really oppressive and that is part of why I highly dislike mafia games in general to begin with.
I've had just about enough of this. Are you seriously going to play the opinion card? I did not call anyone's opinions shit. I am talking about facts. People are claiming that the mafia games are strangling interest, activity, and attention to RPs and that is factually incorrect. All someone has to do is look at the damn board, and they can see it.

If someone can present a genuine argument as to why we should move the mafia games or create a new forum for them, I welcome it. If you can prove that my side of this debate is flawed, then please, do so. I can accept it. But so far nothing I have seen has done that. So far it's been people saying "I feel." You feel oppressed. You feel ignored. You all realize we're talking about a sodding game, right?

Every time I see one of your posts concerning an issue like this, Callie, it always seems to boil down to you feeling offended by something. I do my best to respect other people and their wishes and problems with this community, because God knows I had my issues when I first joined, being an ass to a lot of people and yet still expecting them to make allowances for every little thing that bugged me. I still do that sometimes. But I smartened up and learned how to take a joke or not let every little thing get under my skin, and I am both a better person for it, and have gotten a good deal of enjoyment and companionship from this place after learning not to take offense at everything. Not everyone is out to get you, or me, or anyone else here.

Every time you involve yourself in these things, you talk about how you don't know that much about the topic, or don't really care about it. Then you offer your opinion anyway. Then you proceed to undercut yourself by saying that you're sure people won't pay your opinions any mind, or assure them that they don't need to right off the bat. You just said you don't trust the Temple, meaning the people here, to respect you or your opinions. And these are the people you're looking for support from. Forgive me, but for someone who seems to put so much stock in everyone having a right to an opinion and being respectful to each other, you don't seem to show very much of it to others. You dismissed my entire argument because one of those words I used pissed you off.

Your entire model for presenting yourself in these kinds of discussions utterly baffles and honestly confuses me, because it seems like every third sentence is a contradiction or hypocrisy. When you're insulting the people around you and undermining your own self-esteem, I don't understand how you can expect the community, or the way you feel about it, to change.

As for your actual comment about your beef with the mafia games, I just have no idea where that came from or what it means. What about this discussion has come across as oppressive to you? The fact that people actually disagreed with Secundum's proposal and are now voicing their meager opinions? I thought that's what we're all supposed to be able to do, you included. Your problem with mafia is that...people like it? That there are too many games?


:luna:
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Simmer down there, folks. This issue isn't worth that much blood and sweat to actually worry about -- keep in mind that this is still just deciding a completely arbitrary thing for a webforum as to how we organize something. And it is just a matter of organization.
I don't think the Mafia games are strangling the RPs, but I think there's nothing wrong with giving Mafia it's own subforum. It really doesn't matter either way.
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Iskveda
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Unlimited Prinny Works

I suppose the only major arguments I can propose to counter all this are a handful:

1. Mafia has always been a Forum Game system, not a true RP. It has RP-like elements, but it isn't story-building or character interaction.

2. It might be more convenient to several people if the Mafias were all in one place, and didn't have to compete with the normal RPs for headlining time.

3. Several of the RPs that you've mentioned as being active are somewhat exclusive in terms of membership and activity. They can't exactly be used to comment on the status of the RP section in general.
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