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Theme Weeks
Topic Started: Oct 15 2011, 03:05 PM (8,082 Views)
Gilgamesh
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solbowz Aurarius

You're just jealous of my superior taste.
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Adnarel
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I'd rather be outside.

Alright, I just finished reading the entire topic. For the most part, I've tried to keep myself out of this inevitable issue as it was brewing. Any idiot could see that it was going to come to a head sooner or later.

Let's examine the facts.

1) This Temple likes to have fun Theme Weeks
2) Theme Weeks, in general, tended to be larger in the past, and encompassed topics which could be universally or very nearly universally appreciated (e.g. Cat Week, Monocle Week - photoshop your avatar so it fits with the week).
3) The Theme Weeks of today encompass topics that are appreciated on the margins of board culture (e.g. Nippon Ichi Software America - for God's sake, that's a subculture of a subculture of a subculture).
4a) Theme Weeks of today are more apt to include name changes.
4b) Not all users comply with the unwritten rule of including your usual name somewhere in your sig.
4c) Some users prefer to browse without sigs.
5) Some users feel that name changes happen too often in conjunction with weeks.
6) Some users feel that there are too many Weeks.

Now let's examine Adnarel's opinions regarding each one of these facts.

1) Yes, and it should. Theme Weeks are a great way to just be goofy and have fun.
2) "OMFG ADNAREL STOP LIVING IN TEH PASTST!11!!!1!!eleven!211" If we aren't allowed to draw from our past, then we're doomed to repeat its mistakes and we are doomed to forget its high points and strengths. Let us also observe that the two Weeks I mentioned were something that literally everybody could do. I don't really like the idea of all of Theme Weeks which concern themselves with topics or subjects that cannot be appreciated by everybody. The Theme Weeks that I like (Cat Week, Monocle Week, Soviet Week) are themes that can be readily appreciated by anybody who chooses to browse with avatars on.
3) Using Theme Weeks to "dress up" to your favorite video game or anime theme is a great way to rub people the wrong way about said video game or anime. Do you remember when Phoenix Wright hit the Temple? What about Homestuck? And My Little Pony? If you have any shred of matter inbetween your ears, you will recall that people who aren't necessarily antagonistic to a special interest, but are not fans, will still dislike having the said video game/anime shoved down their throat constantly. If the shoving-down-the-throat happens enough, the previously indifferent user will become antagonistic against the video game/anime. Guess what filling the Temple with special names and avatars constitutes as. >_>
4a) I'm not in favor of the Temple's current name change policy in the first place. If I had my way (and I know I never will on this subject), a user ought to get one name change allowed every six months, mod abuse notwithstanding. This idea of changing your identity constantly is stupid to me. Pick a goddamned name and like it, you airheaded, indecisive bimbo.
4b) Start to issue official warns for this, please. People have asked as nicely as they possibly can, and still some people choose to be dicks about it. Warns, pl0x.
4c) Not very many, but it happens.
5) I've already said my piece about name changes. I also think that an ideal Theme Week is one that doesn't need name changes to get its point across. Besides, now we run into the issue of quantifying how many people is "enough" to constitute a Week worthy of name changing (I'm in favor of 15, btw). Anything less than that, and it's not a Temple-wide Week. It's a small group of fanboys and fangirls cumming all over the Temple and all over each other. Keep that in your Skype, or MSN, or whatever.
6) 2 Weeks has been thrown out as an acceptable amount of Weeks per month, with each Week lasting 7 days. Do I need to remind people that a regular month has 4 weeks in it? That means that for half of each month, there is a special Week going on. That means that at maximum Week usage, "special events" are going on 50% of the time, and "regular" is also only 50% of the time. Does that strike anybody else besides me as being a bit excessive for a definition of "special?"

No matter what happens, we need to codify the results of this discussion so that it doesn't just go underneath the surface and fester all over again. Once again, we ought to learn from the past, and make firm and decisive action one way or another instead of being wishy washy and Canadian about it.
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Shadow Milotic
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...

SHANNON THE DESTROYER
Oct 16 2011, 06:00 PM
Here's a rough idea I thought up. It could undoubtedly use refining, but try the basics on for size.

- Theme weeks must be registered (a topic made at least a week in advance with sign-ups) if people want admins to approve name changes.
- There would be a limit of two theme weeks a month. This does not mean that there will be two theme weeks every month. It means that, at most, people can propose no more than two in a month.

:mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn:
I would be fine with Draco's suggestions being properly enforced. Personally, I don't think the number of participants should define whether or not a theme week takes place, as long as people obey the rules and identify who they are in their member titles and/or signature.
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Adna, it would really help if you avoided personal attacks. It would probably make your points stronger, since you'd be engaging in dialogue with people, instead of insulting them whilst doing so. Just saying.

I agree with your points, but I'm not the one you're trying to convince. It would help if you were constructive, instead of slipping in little digs at people. <_<
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simplechild
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My only feel is murder
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I... will respond to your post soon, Adna. Once I'm done with lectures.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

What did you think of Brawlaweek, Adneral? that had name changes in response to characters that appeared in Brawl. I was Pokemon Trainer for instance. It was popular because even if people didn't get the game it had loads and loads of Nintendo characters in there that anyone can enjoy being as.

Also I changed my name from Sveta to CO Lash because of a bit of antagonism I felt regarding that name in some places. Also I am an Advance Wars fangirl.
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

The main thing I'm wondering here is, how are theme weeks exclusionary? If I'm being completely oblivious here and this is something that's blindingly obvious to everybody but myself, then please humor me, because I really don't understand how celebrating your being part of a fandom that others may not necessarily be a part of is exclusionary. There's nothing stopping people who have changed their usernames/avatars from interacting with those who have not, or vice versa. If anybody feels that a fandom is being "shoved down their throat" because of a passive display on the parts of others, that sounds to me more like a personal issue (though in the case of Homestuck, I can kind of understand the backlash, since it went a little beyond passive at times; though AFAIK that's the exception rather than the norm).

I do, however, agree with the point that people need to exercise more self-control in this area. It can be pretty difficult to remember who's who when there are people averaging two name changes a month. So if there does end up being an official set of rules governing theme weeks--which I'm against, as I consider it unnecessary and likely to alienate some members--then I would be in favor of more clear-cut and decisive rules than those proposed.

I believe Adnarel has the right of it when he says that 2 weeks per month is excessive, because at maximum capacity that means the problem of people averaging two name changes a month is still there. Yes, "at maximum capacity" is unlikely to actually happen, but as long as it has the potential to happen, then the issue may come up again. 1 per month would be much more reasonable, in my opinion, and the rule about adding your actual username to your signature or title needs to be enforced. Not necessarily with warnings, per se, but if somebody forgets like I did during the Gilgamesh week, point it out to them and in all likelihood they will say "Oh hey, thanks bro, I forgot about that."

Just reiterating, though, that I'm against restricting theme weeks in general. And really, even if they do get restricted, it's not as though you can restrict members from, say, "just happening" to all have Star Wars avatars for a week.
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Crash
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!

The issue isn't with avatars at all. You can, and I am confident in saying you always will, be able to change your avatar at any time for any reason (unless that reason is to post pronz or something). Name changes which get a free pass from the 3-month rule are the entire issue.
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Bane Martius Agni
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Archon Agni, of Clan Martius

brb, changing avatar to pronz
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Adnarel
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I'd rather be outside.

I'll try to construct why some Weeks are exclusionary.

The first Week started organically. I forget if it was Cat Week or Monocle Week. For the purposes of this post, it doesn't even matter. The gimmick of both of those weeks was very simple: you turned your avatar into a cat in some manner, or drew a monocle on your avatar. It was very easy to do, and those that didn't have the capacity to do it were able to ask others to do it so that they could join in. Everybody knows what a cat is. Everybody knows what a monocle is. Everybody can look at the avatar and say, "oh, lol, look at the cat/monocle." When the joke wore off, people gradually started to put their avatars back to normal.

The important part that I think Saturos and I emphasize about these sorts of weeks is that literally everybody may appreciate the Week inasmuch their personal taste allows. There is no special knowledge of a cat fandom or a monocle fandom required to understand why the Week is special or funny or whatever.

Now, let me contrast this with two possible iterations of a hypothetical hipster-like Week.

Say that there's been a somewhat successful manga made from the Dick and Jane stories. Dick and Jane never made a big splash in neither Japan nor America, but it picked up a very devoted and loyal cult following who firmly believe in the manga's artistic and entertainment merit. Let us say that the Temple as a whole has 8 readers of this manga. Remember that these readers are part of a small and devoted fanbase. They decide that to show off their spirit, they want to have Dick and Jane avatars. So they do so. A few people notice the commonality between the 8 users' avatars, and ask about it. One of the eight explain that they are doing a little Dick and Jane stint. World slowly gets out that these 8 are using avatars from some obscure manga and life goes on as usual.

That is the first iteration. That is the ideal iteration. Now let us look at how this could pan out differently.

Say that the scenario is exactly the same: Dick and Jane comes out, it's so eccentric and focused that only a small but devoted subculture likes it. Let us say once again that these 8 fans decide to do something at the Temple to show their spirit. They decide to change their avatars and their names. Now, all of the sudden, there are 8 people at the Temple who were never there before, if one goes by the name list at the bottom of the screen. All of these usernames from Dick and Jane are from characters in this manga, and they bear no resemblance to the users' original usernames. A non-participating Kradenette now must figure out who is who all over again. This is simple enough by using the name history function. 5 of the 8 decided to put their username in their sig. The other 3 did not. Now the average Kradenette must do extra work both to connect the new username with the individual, and figure out who the other 3 are. Furthermore, the average Kradenette is now being exposed in a more pointed manner to a fandom that they do not understand nor care about. Think of it like a small group of children on a playground suddenly playing a game that nobody else understands how to play. It's not necessarily heartbreaking, or traumatic. But by very nature, it is exclusionary. By merit of not knowing anything about Dick and Jane, the average Kradenette is not able to appreciate Dick and Jane Week. It is only fun for the 8 people.

This is what contrasts with thematic Weeks which encompass topics so broad that they are nigh impossible to be excluded from. This is what bothers me, personally. If we've got Temple hipsters going around and making Weeks for their niche entertainment, we've got Week after Week of stuff that not everybody can appreciate. At that point has ceased to be a fun Temple-wide event, because... well, it's not.

I've taken part of hipstery niche entertainment Weeks. Immediately, I think of Redwall week. Redwall week was an avatar-only event. People were exposed to Redwall in low doses, and they didn't have to relearn names. The potential for backlash with niche weeks like this is nil. In all technicality, this is also exclusionary. But it does not require the non-participating user to interrupt his or her regular browsing habits just to know who is who. Name-change Weeks require non-participants to change their habits to accommodate the participants. That is what is abhorrent to me. It is that aspect combined with exclusionality that bugs me.

That's the best I can explain it, anyway.

And Sveta, to this date, there are two name-change Weeks that I liked: Harry Potter and Pokemon. Harry Potter and Pokemon share characteristics with Monocle Week and Cat Week. Both events concern themselves with forms of entertainment that are quite nearly universally appreciated. It is very difficult to find somebody who has not read or watched Harry Potter in some form. It is very difficult to find somebody who has not played, read or watched Pokemon at some point. Both of those name-change Weeks dealt with fandoms that were so broad that it was impossible to have somebody asking "what is Harry Potter/Pokemon anyway?" In other words, those weeks excluded nobody from the idea behind the Week. Even somebody who chose not to participate could appreciate what was being celebrated.

EDIT: I really can make well-constructed posts devoid of personal attacks. Truly. I just have to be in the right mood for it. >_>
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Valcos
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Whispering Moose Spirit of Destiny

Adnarel
Oct 17 2011, 02:05 AM
Once again, we ought to learn from the past, and make firm and decisive action one way or another instead of being wishy washy and Canadian about it.
Do not associate us with wishy washy. We are not wishy washy! :mad:
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

Quote:
 
The issue isn't with avatars at all. You can, and I am confident in saying you always will, be able to change your avatar at any time for any reason (unless that reason is to post pronz or something). Name changes which get a free pass from the 3-month rule are the entire issue.


To be fair, that part was more directed toward the idea of fandoms being shoved down one's throat--the way I see it, that would be more of an images thing than a names things.

Quote:
 
I'll try to construct why some Weeks are exclusionary.

The first Week started organically. I forget if it was Cat Week or Monocle Week. For the purposes of this post, it doesn't even matter. The gimmick of both of those weeks was very simple: you turned your avatar into a cat in some manner, or drew a monocle on your avatar. It was very easy to do, and those that didn't have the capacity to do it were able to ask others to do it so that they could join in. Everybody knows what a cat is. Everybody knows what a monocle is. Everybody can look at the avatar and say, "oh, lol, look at the cat/monocle." When the joke wore off, people gradually started to put their avatars back to normal.

The important part that I think Saturos and I emphasize about these sorts of weeks is that literally everybody may appreciate the Week inasmuch their personal taste allows. There is no special knowledge of a cat fandom or a monocle fandom required to understand why the Week is special or funny or whatever.


Fair enough. The only problem with this, I think, is knowing where to draw the line. To use your example from the end of this post, when does Harry Potter week stop being niche and start being universal? A more recent example: Doctor Who. When the idea was proposed, it was suggested that Who might not be big enough to warrant a theme week--and, to be completely fair, that week did get a rather smaller following than the "major" weeks we've had. But that was really more of a case of this particular forum happening to not have a huge Doctor Who following, because in actuality, that series is huge. I'm not exaggerating when I say it's the Pokemon of the UK. That it has less followers than usual on this particular forum is just happenstance. How do you make a judgment call in borderline cases like that?

Quote:
 
Now, let me contrast this with two possible iterations of a hypothetical hipster-like Week.

Say that there's been a somewhat successful manga made from the Dick and Jane stories. Dick and Jane never made a big splash in neither Japan nor America, but it picked up a very devoted and loyal cult following who firmly believe in the manga's artistic and entertainment merit. Let us say that the Temple as a whole has 8 readers of this manga. Remember that these readers are part of a small and devoted fanbase. They decide that to show off their spirit, they want to have Dick and Jane avatars. So they do so. A few people notice the commonality between the 8 users' avatars, and ask about it. One of the eight explain that they are doing a little Dick and Jane stint. World slowly gets out that these 8 are using avatars from some obscure manga and life goes on as usual.

That is the first iteration. That is the ideal iteration. Now let us look at how this could pan out differently.

Say that the scenario is exactly the same: Dick and Jane comes out, it's so eccentric and focused that only a small but devoted subculture likes it. Let us say once again that these 8 fans decide to do something at the Temple to show their spirit. They decide to change their avatars and their names. Now, all of the sudden, there are 8 people at the Temple who were never there before, if one goes by the name list at the bottom of the screen. All of these usernames from Dick and Jane are from characters in this manga, and they bear no resemblance to the users' original usernames. A non-participating Kradenette now must figure out who is who all over again. This is simple enough by using the name history function. 5 of the 8 decided to put their username in their sig. The other 3 did not. Now the average Kradenette must do extra work both to connect the new username with the individual, and figure out who the other 3 are.


I suppose I can see why this could be a problem. Seems to me that it would be easily fixed by enforcing the rule about putting your original username in your signature or title (or just your title, for those who have signatures turned off like me).

Quote:
 
Furthermore, the average Kradenette is now being exposed in a more pointed manner to a fandom that they do not understand nor care about. Think of it like a small group of children on a playground suddenly playing a game that nobody else understands how to play. It's not necessarily heartbreaking, or traumatic. But by very nature, it is exclusionary. By merit of not knowing anything about Dick and Jane, the average Kradenette is not able to appreciate Dick and Jane Week. It is only fun for the 8 people.


I think this may be where the real disconnect is happening. The way I see it, the "more pointed manner" in which the average Kradenette is exposed to the fandom is essentially just that other members have to go to your profile page to see your name history, meaning they see your username/avatar more than they otherwise would. Correct? If so, then it seems to me that that problem could be solved with a minimum of fuss by enforcing the username-in-title rule.

While it may be true that a smaller week is only fun for the people involved, it's not actually detracting from others' fun, is it? In the playground example, I don't see anything stopping someone who isn't familiar with the game from either saying "Hey, can you teach me how to play the game?" or "Okay, have fun, and anyone who doesn't know their game can play a different game over here."

Quote:
 
This is what contrasts with thematic Weeks which encompass topics so broad that they are nigh impossible to be excluded from. This is what bothers me, personally. If we've got Temple hipsters going around and making Weeks for their niche entertainment, we've got Week after Week of stuff that not everybody can appreciate. At that point has ceased to be a fun Temple-wide event, because... well, it's not.


This part, like I said, I do agree with. People need to exercise their self-control more. Alternately, if the number of weeks is administratively restricted, make it a fairly strict rule, once per month or so.

Quote:
 
I've taken part of hipstery niche entertainment Weeks. Immediately, I think of Redwall week. Redwall week was an avatar-only event. People were exposed to Redwall in low doses, and they didn't have to relearn names. The potential for backlash with niche weeks like this is nil. In all technicality, this is also exclusionary. But it does not require the non-participating user to interrupt his or her regular browsing habits just to know who is who. Name-change Weeks require non-participants to change their habits to accommodate the participants. That is what is abhorrent to me. It is that aspect combined with exclusionality that bugs me.


I can understand this. Might it be a reasonable compromise to only consider large Temple-wide theme weeks eligible for free name changes?

Quote:
 
EDIT: I really can make well-constructed posts devoid of personal attacks. Truly. I just have to be in the right mood for it. >_>


Nah, everything there seemed okay to me. (o_o)b
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Jenn-uh
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hunny bunchkins sugarcube lettuce chamomile sweetie pumpkin schnitzel fries

The Phantom Squee
Oct 17 2011, 12:49 PM
Quote:
 
I've taken part of hipstery niche entertainment Weeks. Immediately, I think of Redwall week. Redwall week was an avatar-only event. People were exposed to Redwall in low doses, and they didn't have to relearn names. The potential for backlash with niche weeks like this is nil. In all technicality, this is also exclusionary. But it does not require the non-participating user to interrupt his or her regular browsing habits just to know who is who. Name-change Weeks require non-participants to change their habits to accommodate the participants. That is what is abhorrent to me. It is that aspect combined with exclusionality that bugs me.


I can understand this. Might it be a reasonable compromise to only consider large Temple-wide theme weeks eligible for free name changes?
^This is really all I want. I'll be happy if name changes aren't eligible unless twenty people participate. To put that number into perspective, 41 people signed up for this past Pokemon week and 27 are signed up for the upcoming Zelda week. Honestly, I think twenty is a little low, but it's a compromise so eh. Smaller/more frequent weeks are cool with me so long as they just involve avatar or signature changes to cut down on confusion.
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Dracobolt
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Incorrigible

Jenna
Oct 17 2011, 01:09 PM
The Phantom Squee
Oct 17 2011, 12:49 PM
Quote:
 
I've taken part of hipstery niche entertainment Weeks. Immediately, I think of Redwall week. Redwall week was an avatar-only event. People were exposed to Redwall in low doses, and they didn't have to relearn names. The potential for backlash with niche weeks like this is nil. In all technicality, this is also exclusionary. But it does not require the non-participating user to interrupt his or her regular browsing habits just to know who is who. Name-change Weeks require non-participants to change their habits to accommodate the participants. That is what is abhorrent to me. It is that aspect combined with exclusionality that bugs me.


I can understand this. Might it be a reasonable compromise to only consider large Temple-wide theme weeks eligible for free name changes?
^This is really all I want. I'll be happy if name changes aren't eligible unless twenty people participate. To put that number into perspective, 41 people signed up for this past Pokemon week and 27 are signed up for the upcoming Zelda week. Smaller/more frequent weeks are cool with me so long as they just involve avatar or signature changes to cut down on confusion.
I'm more on the side of freedom for theme weeks, but I think this is definitely worth considering. It makes it easier for everyone. Also, don't forget, most forums are pretty strict about changing your name at all, ever. So it's not like we're not letting there be any freedom there. But, yeah, perhaps we could consider name changes being only for larger theme weeks.

:mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn: :mercury_djinn:
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Peytral
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peytral pls

Theme weeks in general are exclusionary to people who don't like theme weeks.

[/willreadwhathemissedlater]
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Tange9t
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Spooky

In any case, I still disagree with 20 as a number. I believe Adna suggested 15, (I may be wrong, so don't quote me on that) which I think would be much more reasonable.

:venus_djinn: :venus_djinn: :venus_djinn:
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UltaFlame
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Thanks Poui.

Okay, let's work on compromising. I'd like to argue that we've already compromised (hence the rule of original-name-in-usertitle) but whatever, it seems to be an issue again anyway, so clearly it's not working enough. In the interest of moving forward, I propose we stop arguing over whether or not this is actually an issue. While the poll up there shows that more people either don't care or actively don't -want- more rules being imposed... let's be reasonable. The poll is irrelevant for now.

So here's what I propose. Let's -not- say that there must be a minimum. Or if any, let's say it has to be seven or more. As Squee said, just because some children on the playground are playing one game doesn't mean the others have to take offense to it.

Rule 1) The rule of having your username in your usertitle MUST be enforced. Without exception. Refusal to comply would result in either a warning or having your username reverted, whichever the mod in question prefers.

Rule 2) No more than one theme week per month. Theme weeks that try to take place during the downtime are allowed, but at the cost of any participant's three-month namechange. In addition, all Theme weeks must last for a single week (or two, if it's stated it would when) and must be announced at least a week prior to it happening. If the surprise is part of the Theme week, perhaps the staff could be alerted and waiving the week-prior announcement could be left to their discretion.

Rule 3) Sigs don't need to be a part of theme weeks. Keep -something- in your sig that helps identify you if the theme week requires (or you choose to) that you change avatars.

Does this sound reasonable?
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Saelnaha
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Let's just wait and see what happens.

I can't help but notice that the same handful of people I see opposed to the name changes are the same handful of people I know for a fact have sigs turned off, in which case it's their own goddamn fault they don't know who anyone is.
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UltaFlame
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Thanks Poui.

Fine, but that's irrelevant at this point. I don't want antagonism or for people to make their little jabby points, I just want to move on and have this whole thing get behind us and for no drama to come from it again. I swear, it's such a trivial matter that I honestly don't see why it was even brought up, but it was and it's here, so let's agree on a bloody compromise and move on, okay?
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Seoulbowz
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Supergeil

No, Steve, you can't say that definitively at all. Even if a few of the people who are opposed to name changes have sigs turned off it doesn't mean ALL of them do. It's also not their fault if they don't know who anybody is if people come up with some far flung theme week ever two weeks.
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