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Why is Kingdom Hearts so widely loved?
Topic Started: Apr 5 2011, 02:40 PM (1,502 Views)
ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

It's time for an opposite of the spectrum topic.

Let me first begin with a backstory so most who did not know me in the earlier years of the Temple will not assume I am making this topic to piss people off.

I am an animation lover. Always will be. I loved animation when people used to poke fun of me and ostracize me and I was alone in the world. Thankfully that changed today as animation has become more accepted among older crowds. Ok, back to me loving animation, I nearly enjoyed every Disney movie. I also love crossovers so I really enjoyed House of Mouse.

I got myself a PS2 and in the package there was a voucher for one free magazine to Official Playstation Magazine. I sent it in the mail and the magazine I got had the cover story for the first Kingdom Hearts game. It also came with a demo disc that had trailers. One of them was of course Kingdom Hearts. I cannot find the trailer in youtube among, *sigh* the trailers for the other games in the series so I'll say that the trailer focused mostly on the Disney characters.

DISNEY CHARACTERS! OH I WANT IT. MUST HAVE IT!

After a long painful wait for the KH1 release day I got it. Not without the EBgames employees making fun of me. You see guys,people initially poke fun at KH because of the Disney characters. I hated that. It was such a good game and people did not give it a chance. I love Disney and I loved crossovers so this game was a match made in heaven. The Final Fantasy characters had no effect on me. In fact, I never played a Final Fantasy game before KH, so KH made me want to play through some of the FF games. The storyline was also good and it really felt Disneylike. Back then Disney movies had a drought of good storylines and playing KH felt like an old school Disney movie. I cried at the ending as well.

Will there be any more KH games?

Thinking back I wished the first KH game was the only game in the series now.

I got Chain of Memories. I payed for a 2 day shipping so I can get it before I left home for a long trip. I actually liked the card based system and I liked the Organization members in this game. But something did not feel right. Oh yeah, the Disney "worlds" themselves. It felt like a rehash of the ones from KH1 except instead of "hearts" we are talking about "memories" now. Yes I know the original storyline itself is new and leading up to the storyline of KH2 but remember that I play this game for the Disney characters and I felt that they were not cared for anymore. Oh well, this is a side story after all right?

KH2 was announced. I was excited. i could not wait for the release of the game. I preordered and my game did not come on time. I even called customer service and they said they had a shortage of the games. The wait was more painful than ever.

KH2 came. I played through the intro. I felt something was not right here. Why do the worlds feel more shorter now? In the first game I liked the sense of exploration and looking for all the Dalmatian puppies as a side quest. Here I wanted to explore but the game would not let me. GOING THE WRONG WAY GO ON A STRAIGHT LINE TO THIS PLACE. Why did the worlds feel linear now?

Blah blah blah, Finally Disney Worlds.

Wait? That's it? Why does it feel like I am playing a rehash of the movies themselves. Why does it feel that Square is psuhing the Disney worlds aside and not connecting them to the main storyline as they did for the original game.

I'll give you examples from a few worlds from both games.

Sigh this is not worth it to put in a spoiler box. Yes there are major spoilers in here if you really care


Now gameplay. Why do the Disney worlds feel so much shorter as if they were filler? Isn't the whole point of the franchise the Disney stuff? Yes the drives are fun but I would sacrifice the drives for a better use of the Disney franchise and exploration as was done in the first game. The gummi ship stages improved, I can give you that.

Maybe I am biased. As I said I came into this franchise for the Disney stuff. But by KH2 they had much less of an impact. Maybe the major fans don't care about the Disney stuff. After all the first game was mocked for the Disney stuff but by KH2 it suddenly became a respected franchise. I became an antifan because of how the Disney stuff started to get neglected. I lost complete interest.
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Kula Diamond
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atlus tracts

I like bashing stuff with a key for some reason. The story sucks so hard though.

also gummi ship thing in 2 is the best because the later stages are pretty much danmaku
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simplechild
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My only feel is murder
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I think you answered your own question by saying "KH1 was mocked for its use of Disney franchise". Then, it would be obvious to change the focus in order to please the fans.
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Role
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Fulminous Witch
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Have you played BBS? It does a MUCH better job, the disney characters are more involved in the KH plot and some even manipulate the characters. It looks like they're trying to move back to the KH1 story formula, and they've really, REALLY started to refine the gameplay quite nicely. It looks like it may be going back on the right track - we'll see with BBS2 and KH3Ds.

Quote:
 
I think you answered your own question by saying "KH1 was mocked for its use of Disney franchise". Then, it would be obvious to change the focus in order to please the fans.

Yeah, by people who hadn't played it, myself included. After I played it, it was a "Shut up, Role" moment. The game had some clunky controls, but overall was a really good game.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

simplechild
Apr 5 2011, 02:57 PM
I think you answered your own question by saying "KH1 was mocked for its use of Disney franchise". Then, it would be obvious to change the focus in order to please the fans.
If that is true then it is very much unfortunate. Yes I remember forums asking for Pixar worlds and the like. If there is no interest for Disney then why are they asking for Pixar worlds? Perhaps it would have been better if this was completely original after all.

Quote:
 
Have you played BBS? It does a MUCH better job, the disney characters are more involved in the KH plot and some even manipulate the characters. It looks like they're trying to move back to the KH1 story formula, and they've really, REALLY started to refine the gameplay quite nicely. It looks like it may be going back on the right track - we'll see with BBS2 and KH3Ds.


I've heard of it. Unfortunately I have no PSP of have a desire to own one. Well see how it goes in the future.
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Role
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Fulminous Witch
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Well, it's not. As I edited in, the people who claimed that actually hadn't played it yet. KH became famous because it was a disney RPG done right.

Look at it this way. Before Kingdom Hearts, disney games were a joke. Thus why gamers shunned disney as a whole, and mocked it.

Then KH came and turned - of all things - MICKEY MOUSE into a badass, to which even the most hardened gamer looked at KH2 when Micky joined as a guest to be a crowning moment of awesome. In Days, one of the less liked games in the series, its saving grace is that you can play as Mickey in multiplayer mode.

I dare say that without KH, gamers would have never conceived of Mickey being anything more than just some stupid mouse - we'd not have gotten games like Epic Mickey without it. It made disney respectable to gamers.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

Role
Apr 5 2011, 03:02 PM
Well, it's not. As I edited in, the people who claimed that actually hadn't played it yet. KH became famous because it was a disney RPG done right.

Look at it this way. Before Kingdom Hearts, disney games were a joke. Thus why gamers shunned disney as a whole, and mocked it.

Then KH came and turned - of all things - MICKEY MOUSE into a badass, to which even the most hardened gamer looked at KH2 when Micky joined as a guest to be a crowning moment of awesome. In Days, one of the less liked games in the series, its saving grace is that you can play as Mickey in multiplayer mode.

I dare say that without KH, gamers would have never conceived of Mickey being anything more than just some stupid mouse - we'd not have gotten games like Epic Mickey without it. It made disney respectable to gamers.
Actually Capcom games like Ducktales is considered one of the most loved games ever. But that used to be the exception rather than the rule.

I agree KH may have played a role into making Mickey more loved when before he used to lose to Bugs Bunny (the Mario and Sonic of the animation world everybody!) in most loved classic characters. Now they are in equal footing.
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Role
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Fulminous Witch
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I wouldn't say that. Tell me, what's the last good game that had bugs bunny in it? In the eyes of gamers, WB games I'd say are about as bad as older Disney games, rare gems exist but it's mostly cash-ins and shovelware.

Disney games now get respect.

I have yet to see that from a Looney Toons game.

KH kinda gave a wakeup call to Disney Interactive. Gamers demand a bit more than what they were dishing out, so they've started working a bit harder in making their games good. I've yet to see an equivalent reaction from their rivals.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

I meant Bugs Bunny as a cartoon rather than a video game character. Nearly everyone preferred the rabbit to the mouse back in the day. Now people are referencing badass Mickey in their arguments as who is better.

While I only played the Tazmania video game as a video game that featured an original Looney Tunes character and that was meh, I really enjoyed the Tiny Toons games Buster Busts Loose and Buster's Treasure Hunt.
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Role
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Fulminous Witch
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Ah, but you see that's irrelevant in the eyes of gamers. I couldn't care at all about Disney's animation line, save their movies. But I'm all for looney tunes.

Of course, the cartoons are irrelevant to the KH game. What we're talking about is the respect in the eyes of the Gamers, not the eyes of the movie viewers or general audience. KH did quite a lot to make Disney something respectable in the gaming community, and not only that, it's pretty fun.

Yeah, KH2 gets slammed ALOT for bad story and gameplay choices. Rushed, needlessly convoluted, that one scene with Demyx where I swear Sora was so out of character he was Riku for the scene ("You're a nobody! You don't have the right to exist!" O.o What the hell, Sora?!), how the disney worlds weren't really well done and were mainly put on the backburner... then gameplay, how everything was so overly scenematic. Gamers don't like "press ▲ to win" bullshit, they want actual skill to be required for gameplay - starting with Days, that started to happen. Was refined and made much better for BBS and of all things Coded, which was a cell phone game.

Yeah, KH2 got a lot flak. But they're responding to that and working on making a better game. Now if we'd get out of side-game hell and get to KH3, that'd be nice, but the 3DS and NGP games are gonna be hitting first.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

I'm glad to see I am not the only one who had a problem with KH2. You see when people were praising KH2 as better than KH1, and I saw how the side games focused on the Organization members I got annoyed and thought the franchise was heading in the direction where it misused the Disney stuff. I don't have a problem with the Organization or think they ruined KH, they were just misused and could have been as well done as with the major original villain of the first KH game. If the franchise is going back to the way it used to be then maybe I don't mind getting into the franchise once again.
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Role
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Fulminous Witch
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When they say that, they mean the controls. They're much more refined and easy to use. The older Sora is arguably nicer to look at, too. But the Org....

Luxord uses time? REALLY? When? Oh, that battle where we had an arbitrary gauge? Hey, guess what, replace "Time" with "Luck"! SURPRISE! LUXORD MAKES SENSE!

The rest are pretty decent, but the way the heroes handled them? Uggh. Sora is NOT the dark anti-hero type, he's the GOOFY PALADIN TYPE, DAMMIT! He's not say you have no right to exist, he'd say "I agree, you should be able to gain a heart, but this isn't the right way, let me suggest another!" It was such an out of character moment for him I just... ughh...

I swear, some of the things that they did with the org really want me to walk up to Nomura and slap him. It's a great concept, but they needed a freaking Gaiden game (days) to properly flesh them out in the way they should have done in the first place. KH2, as far as the main KH fanbase is concerned(not the causal players, but the ones who are really into it), was just poorly handled, but was an important step in terms of gameplay. It gave Nomura a lot of lessons as to what to do and what not to do - of course, we still expect him to pull the occasional BS out of his ass, but hopefully it'll be done well now.

One thing a lot of people are looking forward to? KH3D looks like it's got the Hunchback of Notre Dame in it. [radio edit] YES. There is no world more appropriate than that, IMO!
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Calibrations
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cock ninja

i didn't like it, everyone looked squishy and the controls were clunky

also no idea what was going on with the story but it was boring
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

Role
Apr 5 2011, 03:58 PM
But the Org....

Luxord uses time? REALLY? When? Oh, that battle where we had an arbitrary gauge? Hey, guess what, replace "Time" with "Luck"! SURPRISE! LUXORD MAKES SENSE!

The rest are pretty decent, but the way the heroes handled them? Uggh. Sora is NOT the dark anti-hero type, he's the GOOFY PALADIN TYPE, DAMMIT! He's not say you have no right to exist, he'd say "I agree, you should be able to gain a heart, but this isn't the right way, let me suggest another!" It was such an out of character moment for him I just... ughh...

I swear, some of the things that they did with the org really want me to walk up to Nomura and slap him. It's a great concept, but they needed a freaking Gaiden game (days) to properly flesh them out in the way they should have done in the first place.
As much as I like Org XIII, I have to agree with you there. The assignment of an "element" (and I use that term loosely) to each member struck me as terribly arbitrary from the very beginning, at least beyond Axel/Larxene/Vexen as the fire/lightning/blizzard trio. Just seemed like a rather poorly-thought-out bid for some kind of unifying factor. I guess they couldn't use, say, the zodiac plus Ophiuchus because FFT had already done so? I dunno.
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Role
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Fulminous Witch
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I'd have rather them lead a different type nobodies each, to have a full 13 types of lesser nobodies. Each being based on a class rather than having an element would have been smarter, too. The arbitrary element thing... that just didn't make sense, and made Days needlessly complicated, especially since all but 4 elements were inaccessible.
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

That would have been cool too, yeah. It would have been a wonderful way to poke fun at common RPG archetypes. Heck, you could probably link many of the members to different common RPG classes as it is, without it being an "official" designation.
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Ian889
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Death comes to all of those who oppose me.

Honestly IDK....
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Kyarorain
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Epitome of Insanity

Because it's made by Square Enix.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

Kyarorain
Apr 6 2011, 04:55 PM
Because it's made by Square Enix.
While blind fanboyism for a company does contribute something, that didn't stop people from mocking the first one before actually playing it and seeing it actually is good. I wanted to understand how starting from the second game, did this franchise start to get respected. I really don't understand the appeal for the second game as I find the first one to be superior.
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

Sveta
Apr 6 2011, 05:00 PM
Kyarorain
Apr 6 2011, 04:55 PM
Because it's made by Square Enix.
While blind fanboyism for a company does contribute something, that didn't stop people from mocking the first one before actually playing it and seeing it actually is good. I wanted to understand how starting from the second game, did this franchise start to get respected. I really don't understand the appeal for the second game as I find the first one to be superior.
It's because not everyone has the same preferences. You liked the Disney more, but a lot more people liked the Final Fantasy more.
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