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Two questions the game gave me.; Possible Endgame Spoilers
Topic Started: Dec 26 2010, 03:09 PM (710 Views)
Bison
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YAR HAR FIDDLE DE DEE BEING A PIRATE IS ALRIGHT TO BE DO WHAT YOU WANT CUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE!

Sorry if these are brought up elsewhere, I didn't see anything when I went through briefly.

Firstly Eoleo

At numerous points in the game it is referenced that the new party are young and "kids". We can also assume that the Original Party waited around 15 years before they had kids, making this new party 15-17 years old, like they were when they set off.

However Eoleo was already born back then. Which makes him around 30. I personally place him at 33. Although when he joins your party he calls the rest of them "kids" for the rest of the game he is referred to as being of a similar age. Especially at the end, when they all agree they are still young and have the rest of their lives to go see each other again. Admittedly 30 isn't THAT old, but he's not young anymore.

Secondly Alex

He better not be dead. Looking back, in every Golden Sun so far, you can bet if anything goes wrong, there is a 90% chance Alex is behind it. To me, he is the Final final boss of the last game, waiting to happen. Probably the most powerful Mercury Adept ever, before he got his hands on some of the Golden Sun. And yet, there is a chance he "lost" to two Dark Adepts. The last time he speaks to you comes through your mind and when I saw that, I actually felt really sad.

However Baldos and Chalis arrive at full strength as far as we can tell, so either Alex fled, struck a deal or was very easy to beat. Alex is not going to be very easy to beat and Baldos and Chalis are didn't seem up to bargaining with him. But they don't even mention him. Another possibility is Alex was working for the Tuaparang High Empyror (sp?) and was ordered to spare them.

Personally I just want him to live.
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Deleted User
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For Eoleo, I think Karis just meant that they were all young enough that they'd plausibly be able to visit each other at some points in the future.

As for Alex, I reckon he let Blados and Chalis go. He's obviously got something very fishy up his sleeve, so who knows why? Perhaps it'll be answered in the next game.
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The Grim Lich
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Legitimate Businessman

Yeah, Alex's scrutability is damn near 0. He does what he wants, how he wants, when he wants. And somehow he gets away with it.
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Phoenix7
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~

It really bugged me that Alex just kinda vanished at that point. Heck, that entire point in the game felt messy and didn't make any sense.

Alex: LAWL I WANT THE APOLLO LENS ACTIVATED
Blados and Chalis: LAWL SO DO WE
Matthew: Kay I'll go do it
Blados and Chalis: NO WAY YOU DIE HERE
Alex: MATTHEW I AM COMMUNICATING WITH YOUR MIND TO TELL YOU THAT ALTHOUGH I WANT YOU TO START THE LENS I DON'T WANT YOU TO

It just didn't make any sort of sense, even though they left it as a plot point for the sequel. I know Blados and Chalis say they wanted it to obtain ancient weapons, but what ancient weapons? It's a lens to destroy an eclipse made by their clan's power, what can they do with it?
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Deleted User
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Yeah, I didn't really like how the ending was handled, tbqh. Except for the Psynergy Vortex at the very end. Because it just screams "There's another game to come" even more so than the rest of it. You know that the fact it's there means there's still something bad at work out there, and we need to find out what.
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Kyarorain
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Epitome of Insanity

I don't think Alex was saying he didn't want Matthew to start the lens. He was saying that Matthew couldn't do it...
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UltaFlame
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Thanks Poui.

Because, really, he couldn't.

And yeah the whole 'I'll handle them for all of five seconds' thing is confusing.

Unless there's more than one Blados and Chalis, but that makes no sense whatsoever.
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Super Slash


Personally, I thought the ending was awesome, for one reason: it ended perfectly. I was like "OMG, I can't wait to see what happens next" the moment I saw that vortex... No music or anything, just a whirling sound as Matthew points to it.
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The Grim Lich
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Legitimate Businessman

Phoenix7
Dec 26 2010, 03:56 PM
It just didn't make any sort of sense, even though they left it as a plot point for the sequel. I know Blados and Chalis say they wanted it to obtain ancient weapons, but what ancient weapons? It's a lens to destroy an eclipse made by their clan's power, what can they do with it?
The Apollo Lens. Its purpose was to stop the Grave Eclipse, but it can also be used as the biggest laser gun on the face of Weyard, and it can be used to basically hold the world hostage.

That is what Blados and Chalis wanted from it. That is why they wanted Luna Tower and the Grave Eclipse activated. They wanted to have a laser cannon. Alex, on the other hand, has ineffable, inscrutable goals. Seriously, what the hell is up with his goals now? At least the release of Alchemy was somewhat straightforward.
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

Personally, I absolutely loved the ending. xP

Peo, I believe Alex points out that Chalis and Blados have the gun pointed at either Tuaparang, or the area around Sol Sanctum - and it's strongly implied that they may not be working on the side of the High Empyror anymore, but then again, Alex is a little shady, too.

I thought the whole thing of Alex telling Matthew to stop was a huge stroke of character development on his part. To me, it marked a point where ALEX was willing to put someone else's well-being ahead of his goals. Which is a marked contrast to what he says about healing Mia in Jupiter Lighthouse.
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HyrulianJedi
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uguu~
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Really? It just seemed to me like he was telling Matthew he wasn't able to do it, someone else should. Alex was notably silent when he and Sveta went up together, and they were capable of activating the Lens...just not surviving.
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UltaFlame
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Thanks Poui.

I'm agreeing with HJ here. It seemed more like he was saying 'you can't do it, so stop trying. Get someone else to do it >:U'
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Bison
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YAR HAR FIDDLE DE DEE BEING A PIRATE IS ALRIGHT TO BE DO WHAT YOU WANT CUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE!

HyrulianJedi
Dec 27 2010, 11:13 AM
Alex was notably silent when he and Sveta went up together, and they were capable of activating the Lens...just not surviving.

> Implying Alex is still alive at this point.


He better be though >__>
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Gwydd
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Eternity Awaits You and Me

I loved the ending. Basically, what Grim said: Holding the world hostage. Furthermore, the Batman Gambits in this series continue to be fantastic: OF COURSE Matthew and his group will restart the Alchemy Machines to get to Belinsk, and they'll save Ei-Jei too. Of COURSE Matthew and his group will solve the puzzles of Luna Tower to get to the Castle, and OF COURSE Ryu Kou will restart the Luna Tower to save his sister. OF COURSE Matthew and his group will try to stop the Eclipse, because countless people have died because of the Eclipse. Matthew and his group are only doing good things, things to help people and to bring about good ends, but are playing right into Alex's hand (and/or the Tuaparang's hands)) the entire time. This is quite similar to Alex's gambit with the Lighthouses – OF COURSE Felix and his group and Isaac and his group will light the beacons, to stop the dying of the world, but Alex reaps the benefits.

The ending was a perfect performance of their ultimate gambit. I also liked the throw-back to Satty and Mendy, with "saving" the doomed family-member, and to the Wise One's transformation gambit.

Sol Sanctum is where it's all coming back too. The more I think about it, the more I feel certain that the final dungeon of the next game will be Sol Sanctum.
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Blissfulystoopid
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Temples' Resident Gaymer

I thought it was interesting. Alex's motivations threw me for a loop for sure, but now I'm thinking it's a little more obvious. In the ending, everyone in Belinsk seems to have new Sol related powers, to the point even a little girl says "I have powers like an Adept now, only not one of the boring four elements, I can use light!"

It seems to me Alex still wants power or something similar, but he's working at a different angle since he can't obtain the power of the Golden Sun now. As a result, now everybody wants to activate the Apollo Lens. The Tuaparang seem to want it to conquer Weyard, wherever they come from, and Blados and Chalis seemed rather willing to betray their nation and it was clearly pointed out that they want it for other reasons. It's weird though, that they wanted it activated in spite of the Eclipse giving them Lunar-power. In my opinion, Alex may have predicted and wanted to create Sol Adepts.

As for how the ending felt, it seemed off, in that it left plot points floating everywhere, but that was intentional. Frankly, the entire negotiation between Alex, Blados, and Chalis while you just stand there was one of my favorite character interactions. It seemed handled perfectly. "Shall we now consider the existence of your Luna powers an open secret?" The way Alex just dragged information out of them and set logic traps for them was great.
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Gilgamesh
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solbowz Aurarius

Your party can curbstomp beat Blados and Chalis. Like hell Alex can't.

I don't really see why the ending bugs people. That is, the part about the Dark Adepts/Light adepts. It was pretty obvious from the fact that it's the GRAVE ECLIPSE that light/darkness were going to play a part in things. Plus, and this is a minor thing, but one of the shadow monsters is weak against everything, which means that it doesn't have an element, like the human bosses in TLA. Ignoring the fact that this is only one line of monsters and Blados and Chalis only have one weakness each, this is still a bit weird :U

As for Alex's actions, if you use Spirit Sense on one of the graves in Harapa, one of the dead people say that, if given enough time, Luna Tower will turn off after absorbing enough light. So maybe Alex needed it on for something, but not for too long. Or maybe just turning it on in of itself opened the way for something, and once that was done it would just be a hindrance.

I did like the part with the Psynergy Vortex at the end though. It was like "so I bet you forgot what Isaac was saying about the Mourning Moon, didn't you?"
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Gwydd
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Eternity Awaits You and Me

And I guess that's where they draw the argument for why the game's all over the place.

A tight-knit plot wouldn't drop Psynergy Vortexes and go pursue other things. Frankly, when I started the game, I thought that swirlcloud in the middle of Angara's map was a representation of the Mourning Moon, rather than Apollo Sanctum being concealed.

But that's fine. In real life, plot-like events drop and pick up over time. We forget about things, and they pop back up where we least expect them. This game doesn't seem to be meant to stand on it's own, just like the original game. The only problem with that is that you level at 1.5x the rate, in order to be the same sort of level range as in GS2, despite it being a part 1.

There's one consistent mission the heroes are on, and they get sidetracked. Which, frankly, is what they should do, if they're good people. They want to stop the suffering of many people across Angara and the Eastern Sea. They're willing to put their journey home on hold for that. They can't sit idly bye while Eoleo and Hou Ju die. And they can't let Ryu Kou take all the responsibility of saving them onto himself. And by the time the Grave Eclipse happens, they feel they need to stop it before returning to rebuild the Soarwing. Their journey to get a Roc's Feather just brought them into other trouble.

It's like how Link sets off to save the kids of Ordon village and Illia, but he gets pulled into a bigger conflict along the way. He might not save Illia until he braves the third-to-last-Dungeon, but by then, he can't just turn back, having saved her, and say, "Mission Accomplished." He's in the thick of it now. So, he goes, restores the Twilight Mirror, fights Zant, fights Ganondorf, and then returns to Ordon with the kids and Illia, after finishing what he began.

It's a common case where the call to adventure isn't directly linked with the actual plot itself, but is actually only a subplot. But to be sure, Isaac having the Soarwing will definitely have something to do with revisiting Sol Sanctum and/or stopping that giant Psynergy Vortex that may or may not be the Mourning Moon.
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