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Temple of Kraden News: Welcome to the Temple of Kraden! ------ All worshipers may enter the Most Holy Place in single file, reflecting on the bountiful blessing Kraden hath provided unto him or herself since their last visit. Head coverings are not necessary, as true penitence and humility are found within. The Priests and Priestesses of Kraden endeavor to remind all that fresh orange juice is heavily preferred; only whores use frozen.
Greetings, heathen. Perhaps some fortuitous blessing of Kraden's grace hath led you to our humble Temple, or perhaps you are simply curious about this strange and wonderful cult. Should you be willing - and dare to hope - to achieve enlightenment, the door opens before you. Lo! Leave your old life behind! For once you step through, you become something more than just yourself.

You become a Kradenette.

Are you willing to make the rapturous plunge? Do you have what it takes?



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Hang on a minute...
Topic Started: Dec 1 2010, 07:13 AM (2,794 Views)
Crash
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!

Hmm, I was halfway through writing some kind of epileptic tree about things that require Reveal being influenced by some kind of reality-altering psynergy that makes reality only work if you personally will it to be there (hence why people could flip switches without using Reveal), but then I remembered that you can find coins and stuff that are Revealed by just checking them without the psynergy.
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Delfeir
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Adachi is not amused.

So basically you were saying that people who had The Force didn't have to be trained in The Force if they assumed/knew that they had some kind of ability?

Works for me.
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Crash
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!

I dunno how to explain it best. Like, unless you know for a fact that something is there, either through previous knowledge or by seeing it from Reveal, it would remain hidden to you--so those scholars in Contigo could push against the door all they want but unless they know it's not there, the truth will remain hidden to them.
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lazywombat
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Worthy
[ *  * ]
Cap'n Delfeir
Dec 1 2010, 03:10 PM
That one is not explained, so we can just assume that Ivan took a level in badass and can now fly around like a boss.

It's the only reasonable assumption.
Very reasonable. :shades:

Like others have said, for reveal I always figured that the thing was still physically there, just invisible, so if you knew it was there you could still use it.
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Tractatus
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[ *  * ]
Alex warped through the door and opened it from the other side, which DIDN'T require reveal to open.

But seriously, the purpose of the door was to only let those with psynergy through, that's the only plot point regarding that door. No dialogue indicated the necessary usage of reveal, nor did any reference the actual usage of reveal. There's a discontinuity between plot and gameplay, that's all.

The game mechanic is limited and only a few psynergy can be seen as sensible when it comes to opening doors, so if it was more complex, it would have done it by some other means.
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Menaus
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[ *  * ]
Wait then how did Kraden get through the door?
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Shiroi Jigoku
Elemental

Kraden is a scholar of alchemy, and was with three very knowledgable and very powerful adepts.

I'm sure that they had a method that no one else knew of. Who knows, maybe they transferred some power of the stars into him to trick the door into thinking he was adept, and then transferred it back.

Also with the door, Kraden commented that you needed an adept of the lighthouse's element to open the lighthouse - maybe the button that opened the door would only respond to a Venus adept?
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Super Slash


This has always bugged me as well. I'm pretty sure the correct answer is that it's an overlooked plothole.
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Kyarorain
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Epitome of Insanity

I don't see how Kraden getting through is a plothole. He could have walked through hand-in-hand with an Adept, they could all have surrounded him or something.
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DJ Octavio
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Check out my spicy wasabi beats

Well, if you look at it this way, Kraden can see Psynergy when it's being cast, unlike normal people who cannot. There's a good chance that because of that fact, and he's studied alchemy and psynergy for so long, that he has some ability with it, just not enough to actually use it.

Similar to how Babi learned how to navigate the Lemurian ship and use the Cloak Ball.
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Shiroi Jigoku
Elemental

You know, I never thought about the fact that Kraden could see psynergy, but yeah, being able to seen it would mean that he'd have to have some grasp of psynegy power.

Who knows, maybe with enough training a non-adept can learn to manipulate psynergy to some extent - just not the kind of extent an adept can.
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b l o n d e b o n d
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Wombo Combo

Not to mention the metric shit ton of exposure to the elemental stars he's had.
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Gaeth
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Disciple
[ * ]
Well, Reveal just allows you to see what is really there, instead of what is just perceived, right?

Obviously, Kraden is such a genius he can see what is there without needing Reveal. :D
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Gwydd
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Eternity Awaits You and Me

That's not the problem, though, Gaeth. He didn't need to see the switch. He did have to have Psynergy in order to pass the doors, which close otherwise.

Faran, Iodem, and the archaeologists from Lalivero couldn't go through the door without Psynergy.

However, Iodem had not trained with the Cloak Ball, like Babi had. Babi insisted that adepts had to use the Black Orb, not Iodem, even though Babi was not an adept and could use it. This shows that someone exposed to fonts of psynergy, someone who's practiced spiritualistic powers, or someone who has been studying a particular type of psynergy long enough (like Cloak), can develop semi-adept like powers.

I assume it's one or more of these. Kraden has been amongst adepts for a long time. He also has been exposed to the Elemental Stars, though how much, I cannot say, since he never held them, and I assume the mythril bags were to prevent radiation poisoning from them.

But he would have enough exposure and study of it to pass the door, I assume, while Iodem only just learned about Psynergy's existence from Babi, and while Faran had been observing Sheba all her life, he never knew how she did what she did, but called her a child of the gods.
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Uulmshar
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This is simple. Kraden is the wise one is disguise.
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Gwydd
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Eternity Awaits You and Me

DD Spoilers.

Spoiler: click to toggle
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Uulmshar
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Ah, but gods are all-encompassing, right? therefore, the wise one is god.
:D
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

Uulmshar
Jan 14 2011, 04:26 PM
Ah, but gods are all-encompassing, right? therefore, the wise one is god.
:D
Only by the same logic that because all squares are rectangles, all rectangles must also be squares.
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Raven the Ravenous
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[ *  * ]
Despite reading all of this, all I can say is: Saturos. Menardi. Mars. Adepts. Badass. Proxians. Melt. Giant. Hole.

Or we can go with that plothole waving at us from the sidelines.
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Uulmshar
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I was thinking more along the lines of: if "god" is within everything, and all around us, then it is also in the wise one, therefore... well yeah it was kind of a fallacy from the start.
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