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Topic Started: Dec 1 2010, 07:13 AM (2,793 Views)
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In the underground passage beneath Venus Lighhouse, remember that door you need Reveal to open? How did Saturos and co. open it, no one with them has Reveal. Sheba doesn't get Reveal until after Airs Rock >_>
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Gilgamesh
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solbowz Aurarius

This is what we call a plothole.

Obviously one of them had it somehow, since eyewitnesses say they opened the door the same way the party did.
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Phoenix7
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~

Perhaps they had something which allowed Sheba to use Reveal, much like the Force Orb, and then it got lost when Saturos and Mernardi died and plunged into the lighthouse. I doubt they'd trust Felix with it.

Or Alex could have pilfered it when he went on a one-man journey. Either works!
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Tange9t
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Spooky

Either that or she forgot how to use it from the sheer trauma of being rescued by felix instead of her one true love ivan :awe:
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Lemubaby
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(_(_( ・ω・)

Gilgamesh
Dec 1 2010, 07:18 AM
This is what we call a plothole.
This.
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Delfeir
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Adachi is not amused.

They got through a few situations that the other Adepts struggled with or had to use roundabout methods to bypass. You can either assume that they got through in some other methods either by different applications of Psynergy, or because Alex somehow knew how to open it without revealing it, or something like that. Alternatively, it's a minor plothole and we can just leave it at that. No game is truly perfect in that regard.
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Adnarel
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I'd rather be outside.

Tsugi-tan
Dec 1 2010, 08:38 AM
Either that or she forgot how to use it from the sheer trauma of being rescued by felix instead of her one true love ivan :awe:
I prefer this explanation.
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

Plothax
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b l o n d e b o n d
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Wombo Combo

Then you can argue how the [radio edit] Kraden got through the Lamakan desert being neither Mars or Adept. :awe:

Besides the whole Kraden being all powerful and what not.
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Delfeir
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Adachi is not amused.

Saturos and Menardi used their mastery of fire and heat based Psynergy to suppress the heat enough for them all to get through. They explain this in the games, and I'm sure it's not just them they protect. Plus Alex is presumably more powerful than Mia, meaning he could likely aid by creating water and such. In short, those three Adepts would easily be able to help a party of five across. Garet and Mia working in tandem at that level of their power? Less so.

Next question?
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The Grim Lich
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Legitimate Businessman

What would you suggest as to an explanation for how Isaac and company were able to ascend to a point on Jupiter Lighthouse where Hover was most definitely required to access?
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Delfeir
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Adachi is not amused.

That one is not explained, so we can just assume that Ivan took a level in badass and can now fly around like a boss.

It's the only reasonable assumption.
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Crash
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!

Do they actually need it though? I think you make a path that eventually clears the way from need of Hover and Cyclone. I'd have to check though.
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The Grim Lich
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Legitimate Businessman

Well... if they don't, then I guess I've just volunteered to clean up the Temple Thunderdome.
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Delfeir
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Adachi is not amused.

Or there may be Crash's answer. I, too, don't remember if you end up clearing the path or arranging for some shortcut to be put in place, but given that you're in the lead ahead of Isaac and co anyway, they're probably just able to follow what you've already done.
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Gwydd
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Eternity Awaits You and Me

This plothole caught me from the VERY beginning – as soon as I got control of Sheba in the second game and found out she didn't have Reveal. Over time, I formulated an answer that I can stand behind.

But first, on Jupiter Lighthouse: Isaac and crew are on a part of the lighthouse that you can NEVER get to. Obviously, they couldn't get into the lighthouse, so they SCALED THE WALLS.

Similarly, Saturos and Menardi FAILED to solve the mysteries of the lighthouse, MISERABLY. Proxians did the research, of course, and Alex knows a lot more as well. So they would know there's a hidden switch there. Remember, there's a hidden switch you need Reveal for in Lunpa Fortress, but if you know where it is – something Dodonpa and his brigands do know. So if Saturos, Menardi, and Alex knew where the switch was in the Venus Ruins, they wouldn't have to use Reveal to find it. This same thing happens in the first part of Venus Lighthouse: you need Reveal to enter the staircase to make the path in the Tunnel Ruins, and the scholars say that they saw Kraden and the villains at the statue, BEYOND WHERE YOU NEED REVEAL – because you can get to a viewing point from a different staircase. This shows that, while the player is limited by POV – you can't walk through a fake wall down a staircase or press a button hidden in a relief unless you can REVEAL it – the characters are not; they can manipulate hidden switches, walk down staircases that are otherwise hidden, as long as they know the truth about the illusion.
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Crash
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Wheey! I've became a human being!! I am very handsam!

Um, you can definitely get to that place where the platform collapses. Obviously Garet and Mia end up on a part you can't get to because they fall through the trap, but where Isaac and Ivan were? I don't think it's required, but you can go to that part for sure.

I mostly agree with what you're saying about Reveal, but wouldn't you think the dudes studying Anemos Sanctum would have tried touching those doors to open them, and find out that there's no door there at all?
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LightGreen
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<3 Manaphy.
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Crash
Dec 1 2010, 03:13 PM
Do they actually need it though? I think you make a path that eventually clears the way from need of Hover and Cyclone. I'd have to check though.
At the beginning of Jupiter lighthouse there is a a locked door that requires a stone block to be pushed onto it, thus opening the door for anyone to use easily. So i'm just guessing Isaac's group arrived after Felix's group reached the block and pushed it into place. Thus allowing them not to have Hover yet also get up Jupiter lighthouse.
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Gwydd
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Eternity Awaits You and Me

Crash
Dec 1 2010, 04:32 PM
Um, you can definitely get to that place where the platform collapses. Obviously Garet and Mia end up on a part you can't get to because they fall through the trap, but where Isaac and Ivan were? I don't think it's required, but you can go to that part for sure.

I mostly agree with what you're saying about Reveal, but wouldn't you think the dudes studying Anemos Sanctum would have tried touching those doors to open them, and find out that there's no door there at all?
Oh, I remember, yeah, you're right. That's true.

But HOW THE HELL DID GARET AND MIA CLIMB BACK UP, HUH? DID THE GIRLS THROUGH THEM A LASH? BUT WHAT IF PIERS OR FELIX HAD LASH PEBBLE?

In any case, I misspoke there. But I stand behind what I said about Reveal.

It's possible that the doors of Aneamos Sanctum only open for ADEPTS as well. Or that they work differently than other illusion doors/walls.
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Adnarel
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I'd rather be outside.

I prefer to think that the Book One party was walking around the vertical surface of Jupiter Lighthouse using suction boots.
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