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Pokemon Tournaments!; In my Temple? More likely than you think,
Topic Started: Sep 26 2010, 11:49 PM (3,999 Views)
Dreaming Sun
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SuperGreenKristaven
Oct 20 2010, 04:43 PM
Bah, if only I had WiFi!

Fine! I'll run my own Tournament one day! With blackjack! And hookers! On Pokemon Online or Pokemon Lab! Then people without WiFi can participate.
Not if I do it first D: <

Seriously though, the only people this will appral to are te competiive people, since setting teams is a pretty big hassle.
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Jarnakel Magnus
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Nothing to siege here, move along.

Well, Gwydd needs to get active so questions about competitive stuff can be answered since I have NO CLUE about that sort of stuff.

We also need to remedy the rules to make things more clear. And we need to figure out the BEST date to do this. December is apparently a bad choice. *shrug*

So you have time. Lots of time. D:
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Tange9t
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Spooky

All of the time.

Laso do we PM you with our teams when the time comes round or post 'em here? For future reference ofc.
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Saelnaha
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Let's just wait and see what happens.

Ohey, just as a side note, I will NOT be using Diamond as previously stated. Instead I'll be using HeartGold.
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Jarnakel Magnus
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Nothing to siege here, move along.

teams will be PMed to Gwydd and myself about a day before the tourneys start, so we can include them in the opening posts and such. Assuming this whole thing doesn't fall through.
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Nakun


Hey Gaiz,

Not to come back and wreck fun, but here are somethings I'm noticing:
1) December is a bad month for tourneys because: NaNo (?), Finals, Dark Dawn, Holiday Shopping / family obligations.
However, I understand if you wait too much longer B/W are going to hit American shores, and that is what I'm assuming you want to pre-date.
2) I agree that there should be some way to make a tourney more accessible to non-competitive battlers. That is not what Battle of the Heart does. By not paying attention to the tiers you just let people canned luncheon meat Arceus/ Darkrai/ all kinds of things that are banned. Is it no fun watching your favorite pokemon lose to a pro team? Yes. Is it anymore fun to watch a legendary plow through your favorites?
3) There is a large difference between 4th gen D/P/Pt and 4th Gen HG/SS, most notably, using D/P/Pt you don't have the auto level down feature available, making setting even levels nearly impossible.
4) Your arguments against competitive strategy seem to be, "We don't want to see strategy" and seem to be phrased like, "No baton passing EVAR." This is a little crazy. Are you going to call someone out for, after KOing with a Gyarados and having their opponent switch to Zapdos, switching their Gyarados out to Magnezone (resists the incoming electric attack)? Hippowodan (immune to electric attack)? Lanturn (Volt Absorb heals from electric)? Electivire (gets +1 speed to enable a sweep)? Your lines are subjective entities, not objective facts. You will have many disputes over utilizing synergy and making a team that helps each other by resisting weaknesses and covering a variety of attacking types and employing "unfair" strategy.

Your concepts, while good need some cleaning. For persons who want to see other pokemon/ use their favorites more, you might consider a point-buy system, allowing people to purchase pokemon, the idea being that you couldn't buy a team of the OU pokemon, having to make choices like, "Well, I can't afford Gyarados, so I'll go with Feraligator." Or something more hampering like, "I need a fire type but I don't have any points left, looks like I'll have to use Rapidash instead of Infernape." or "I really like using Ampharos for Sub-punch, so I'll not use the TyraniBOAH and use Sub-Punch Ampharos for my Blissey counter.

Good Luck!
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Deleted User
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^ Someone give this man a medal.
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Dreaming Sun
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Nakun
Oct 30 2010, 12:35 AM
Your concepts, while good need some cleaning. For persons who want to see other pokemon/ use their favorites more, you might consider a point-buy system, allowing people to purchase pokemon, the idea being that you couldn't buy a team of the OU pokemon, having to make choices like, "Well, I can't afford Gyarados, so I'll go with Feraligator." Or something more hampering like, "I need a fire type but I don't have any points left, looks like I'll have to use Rapidash instead of Infernape." or "I really like using Ampharos for Sub-punch, so I'll not use the TyraniBOAH and use Sub-Punch Ampharos for my Blissey counter.
Imma say a definite no, IMO, here.

1. Bad idea, and inefficient. I've actually seen someone propose someone similar to this on Smogon once, and it's just... overal a worse idea. It's too confusing for one, to build a team with these unusual rules, the numbers are arbitrary, and made by personal opinion, and that it's just overal inefficient, as someone could put all their eggs in one basket, so to speak, using an Arceus and 5 Magikarps, for example.

2. Unlike on Smogon, there's one really bad point- You're going to have to raise a new Pokemon. "Oh know, my Garchomp has too many points. Looks like I'll have to catch and raise an Altaria just for this Tournament."

And that's my only real problem. For 1) all I can say is that NaNo, by definition, it only November, but good point . For 2) and 4), again, we're all friends here. Just don't be a douche and we should be fine. 3) is also a good point
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Nakun


@Ravenbolt, thanks, but looks like I have a little work to do to polish up my thoughts too.

@Insularity
Point Buy doesn't have to be some complex issue like I want Outrage on my Garchomp so that cost me 7 of my 80 points, but I've already used up 75 points, so I guess I'll have to go with Dragon Claw. In fact, it should not be like that at all. I agree, that is a terrible idea you will kill yourselves with math and reviews and junk that doesn't need to come up. Here's a point buy example that seems it may be simpler:

Each person gets 10 points.
Ubers cost 4 points
OU cost 3 points
UU cost 1 point
NU are free
Not Fully Evolved(1st Stage) are free

You can change the numbers around if you want (You could go 5/3/2/1/Free for another example), but that's as complex as it has to be. This way you have a general way of measuring strength (Smogon Tiers) and a way to limit people from using an entirely competitive (Smogon) team and force more creativity and pokemon into your tournament.
About your point 2, having to catch and raise new pokemon, I thought this was already planned to occur, Thus the ~1 month delay. If the tournament set up wasn't intended to have people have to raise new pokemon, then you ought to consider switching some things around. The current set up with three different brackets, each focusing on entirely different play styles, practically forces people to raise new teams, especially when you don't want to conform to the dominate metagame.

Edit:
Nakun
 
2) I agree that there should be some way to make a tourney more accessible to non-competitive battlers. That is not what Battle of the Heart does. By not paying attention to the tiers you just let people canned luncheon meat Arceus/ Darkrai/ all kinds of things that are banned. Is it no fun watching your favorite pokemon lose to a pro team? Yes. Is it anymore fun to watch a legendary plow through your favorites?


Wait, what? Definitely not my wording. I don't remember what I said, but...?

Edit 2:
Oh, canned luncheon meat. canned luncheon meat is canned luncheon meat. I make so much more sense. Not that that was me...
Carry on.
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Deleted User
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See, this is the problem with the rift between competitive and casual players - it's incredibly hard to find a good compromise >_>
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Kula Diamond
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atlus tracts

Why not just do a generic OU metagame tourney?

Not like people are forced to use 6 OUs. Hell, there are some UUs that can wreck OU (I [radio edit]ing love Milotic in the current Gen5 meta).
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Deleted User
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Because most of the players here aren't Metagamers.
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Kula Diamond
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atlus tracts

Ravenbolt
Oct 30 2010, 04:29 PM
Because most of the players here aren't Metagamers.
Standard UU?

IDK
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Lemubaby
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(_(_( ・ω・)

My team is ready.
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Jarnakel Magnus
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Nothing to siege here, move along.

Nakun
Oct 30 2010, 12:35 AM
Hey Gaiz,

Not to come back and wreck fun, but here are somethings I'm noticing:
1) December is a bad month for tourneys because: NaNo (?), Finals, Dark Dawn, Holiday Shopping / family obligations.
However, I understand if you wait too much longer B/W are going to hit American shores, and that is what I'm assuming you want to pre-date.
Yeah. Unfortunately, it looks like we won't be able to do that. However, I don't see B/W displacing 4th gen completely, so we should still be able to do this after their release dies down

2) I agree that there should be some way to make a tourney more accessible to non-competitive battlers. That is not what Battle of the Heart does. By not paying attention to the tiers you just let people canned luncheon meat Arceus/ Darkrai/ all kinds of things that are banned. Is it no fun watching your favorite pokemon lose to a pro team? Yes. Is it anymore fun to watch a legendary plow through your favorites?
Well, first off, Most Legendaries are easy to counter, mainly due to many of them being the same type. Sure, they have good base stats, but if someone's not EVing them, it's not quite that big a consideration. However, it is a consideration, which is why we were trying to set some regulations down. I admit that this one needs to be addressed, but we did specify that the regulations weren't complete.

3) There is a large difference between 4th gen D/P/Pt and 4th Gen HG/SS, most notably, using D/P/Pt you don't have the auto level down feature available, making setting even levels nearly impossible.
But you have the auto level up feature. The solution therefore is to use the level 100 setting. Problem solved, point moot.

4) Your arguments against competitive strategy seem to be, "We don't want to see strategy" and seem to be phrased like, "No baton passing EVAR." This is a little crazy. Are you going to call someone out for, after KOing with a Gyarados and having their opponent switch to Zapdos, switching their Gyarados out to Magnezone (resists the incoming electric attack)? Hippowodan (immune to electric attack)? Lanturn (Volt Absorb heals from electric)? Electivire (gets +1 speed to enable a sweep)? Your lines are subjective entities, not objective facts. You will have many disputes over utilizing synergy and making a team that helps each other by resisting weaknesses and covering a variety of attacking types and employing "unfair" strategy.
... How many times do I have to say that this is NOT what we were saying. We said nothing about not using strategy. We just don't want to see metagame team setups used in the non-meta-topurneys. Strategy is fine. Using something you got from reading smogon or whatever, is not. We don't want to see people bringing in a mon specifically to boosthax all its stats than switch to a tank or something that can heal itself and then roll through the party of the non-metagamers. Yes, we realize there will be disputes over what is and isn't valid, which was why we wanted to set up a sort of judging panel, and why battle videos are required to be uploaded to wi-fi. So that they can be examined when a dispute arises. We also SPECIFIED that the regulations were subject to change, and that we KNEW they weren't quite complete, and that we were mostly gauging interest, so that if people were interested, we could expand on them, and if they weren't, we wouldn't have done all that work for nothing. Unfortunately, no one here seems to be able to read, and we got spammed with "So you're outlawing everything? Fail," and similar statements. Instead of reading, and politely pointing things out, we were essentially attacked, and, as can be seen, I did not take kindly to that. As things stand, I really don't feel like doing any work on this, because the metagamers have shown that they can't play nice, and I don't want to subject the less competitive players to that.

Your concepts, while good need some cleaning. For persons who want to see other pokemon/ use their favorites more, you might consider a point-buy system, allowing people to purchase pokemon, the idea being that you couldn't buy a team of the OU pokemon, having to make choices like, "Well, I can't afford Gyarados, so I'll go with Feraligator." Or something more hampering like, "I need a fire type but I don't have any points left, looks like I'll have to use Rapidash instead of Infernape." or "I really like using Ampharos for Sub-punch, so I'll not use the TyraniBOAH and use Sub-Punch Ampharos for my Blissey counter.

A point buy system would make it seem like we cared more about the metagame than the "for fun" aspect. People who play for fun won't want to end up with a team that uses fewer than max points when there are metagamers playing, and minmaxxing their teams. I also note that you're using metagame terminology there. Which is exactly what the tourney of Heart was trying to AVOID.
Responses bolded.

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Dreaming Sun
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Ravenbolt
Oct 30 2010, 04:29 PM
Because most of the players here aren't Metagamers.
But there are probably enough people to sort one, actually.

Wanna try and organise one, Raven?
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Tange9t
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Spooky

This reminds me, I still haven't gotten my last poke for the tourn to final stage yet. Will have to hurry up and work on that.
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Kula Diamond
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atlus tracts

Jarnakel Magnus
Oct 30 2010, 06:22 PM
We don't want to see people bringing in a mon specifically to boosthax all its stats than switch to a tank or something that can heal itself and then roll through the party of the non-metagamers.
Whirlwind/Roar/whatever else lolololo

Also, why not do this in a simulator like Pokemon Lab?
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Jarnakel Magnus
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Nothing to siege here, move along.

Because I know nothing about said simulators? Also, do said simulators record battles? If not, then no. We need to be able to see what happened so disputes aren't settled by "my word against yours."
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Dreaming Sun
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Hakurei
http://s9.zetaboards.com/The_Temple_of_Kraden/single/?p=8175630&t=7236798
Jarnakel Magnus
Oct 30 2010, 06:22 PM
We don't want to see people bringing in a mon specifically to boosthax all its stats than switch to a tank or something that can heal itself and then roll through the party of the non-metagamers.
Whirlwind/Roar/whatever else lolololo

Also, why not do this in a simulator like Pokemon Lab?

Because non-metagamers don't use those moves typically.

Jarnakel Magnus
http://s9.zetaboards.com/The_Temple_of_Kraden/single/?p=8175643&t=7236798
Because I know nothing about said simulators? Also, do said simulators record battles? If not, then no. We need to be able to see what happened so disputes aren't settled by "my word against yours."

Yes, it saves text logs.
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