Temple of Kraden News:
| Greetings, heathen. Perhaps some fortuitous blessing of Kraden's grace hath led you to our humble Temple, or perhaps you are simply curious about this strange and wonderful cult. Should you be willing - and dare to hope - to achieve enlightenment, the door opens before you. Lo! Leave your old life behind! For once you step through, you become something more than just yourself. You become a Kradenette. Are you willing to make the rapturous plunge? Do you have what it takes? One of us! One of us! One of us! Already one of us? Make your presence known: |
| The Anime/Manga Thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 8 2010, 06:21 PM (373,658 Views) | |
| Seoulbowz | Nov 24 2014, 10:44 PM Post #8661 |
Supergeil
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So in other words you were shitposting. |
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| Gilgamesh | Nov 24 2014, 10:58 PM Post #8662 |
solbowz Aurarius
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[radio edit] you |
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| Saturos | Nov 24 2014, 11:32 PM Post #8663 |
heart-under-blade
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Yeah Boyd, and defending Saber of all characters. Are you feeling all right? In that case, it's more like Urobuchi gave Nasu an excuse for his shitty Saber writing, since F/SN was written first. :awsm: Though I'm exaggerating a bit there, Saber has great moments. Hell, I'm fine with her rigidity and refusal to compromise, as well as her chivalrous code of honour. But I think the warmth and friendliness she displays to Shirou and her general connection to him (Ufotable might be dialing this up, I'd have to check) runs counter to what we're told about her mythos in Nasuverse. Minor spoilers for Saber If I had the time I'd reread UBW so I could speak more pointedly to changes and themes and how Ufotable is handling it. |
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| Super Slash | Nov 25 2014, 09:52 PM Post #8664 |
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So I never actually got an answer to my question. Why is this anime bad, yet UBW is apparently perfectly fine in the VN? I have no idea what you're even whining about Boyd lol |
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| Saturos | Nov 25 2014, 10:03 PM Post #8665 |
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heart-under-blade
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Boyd's mad because UBW like ep 3 or 4, I forget which Basically, Ufotable disregarded established canon rules to make Saber look cool, and that is the unforgivable sin in Boyd's eyes. |
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| Super Slash | Nov 25 2014, 10:29 PM Post #8666 |
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That still makes no sense, because aren't they just following the VN? |
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| HyrulianJedi | Nov 25 2014, 10:37 PM Post #8667 |
uguu~
  ![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)
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I haven't read the VN, so all of my complaints are about the presentation of the story within the UBW anime, with memories of my issues with the F/SN anime. Even without knowing the original or the "rules", I still had significant issue with the Berserker/Saber fight too, though. And I already gave a summary of my main issues with the show, back when you originally asked. |
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| Saturos | Nov 25 2014, 10:39 PM Post #8668 |
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heart-under-blade
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It's more than they're not following the VN, per se. Apart from this it's been pretty faithful from what I remember tl;dr it's a bit more than not straight adapting, Boyd can't deal with it, I can overlook it as it's likely to be completely inconsequential to literally anything else in the narrative apart from like those 5 seconds. Yeah, I think Boyd's being a bit silly, but I still think his reaction is amusing. Oh, Kyle, what didn't you like about the Berserker vs. Saber fight?
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| Super Slash | Nov 25 2014, 10:41 PM Post #8669 |
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Well, I was more referring to Boyd actually, since he just keeps complaining without providing any sort of reasons for it. |
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| Gilgamesh | Nov 25 2014, 10:42 PM Post #8670 |
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solbowz Aurarius
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Berserker doesn't try to block Saber's attacks or engage in swordplay, he just mindlessly attacks without regard to defense (unless he recognizes an A Rank attack). In the VN, anyway. That's part of the point of the whole "skill is used to compensate for weakness, but he's so strong he doesn't need it" thing the VN says about him. I already gave my reasons weeks ago, I'm not repeating myself because I'm too busy atm |
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| Super Slash | Nov 25 2014, 10:43 PM Post #8671 |
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I don't care enough to go several pages back tbh, doesn't really matter that much but it IS kind of annoying |
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| Gilgamesh | Nov 25 2014, 10:44 PM Post #8672 |
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solbowz Aurarius
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I'll tell you what's annoying "omfg this anime is so cool ufotable are gods saber is amazing this is perfect adaptation" when even DEEN's was more faithful at this specific point This is the "anime/manga" thread not the "only post if you have positive opinions" thread |
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| Saturos | Nov 25 2014, 10:48 PM Post #8673 |
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heart-under-blade
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Boyd, I understand that perspective, but lack of faithfulness to the VN aside, is this approach inherently bad? It gives a different meaning and a different impression to Berserker, but I think it's definitely more interesting and better to watch than it would be otherwise. The VN focuses a lot on the feeling of inescapable horror and futility, but a lot of that depends on interiority and inner monologue, and Nasu's repeated prose style. That's not as entertaining to represent in animation, which depends heavily on visuals. I think the change in Berserker's fighting style is a good one over the VN, and a recognition of the differences in mediums. I mean, even Deen had Berserker block attacks and have EDIT: But nobody's shitposting like that here, Boyd. |
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| Super Slash | Nov 25 2014, 11:15 PM Post #8674 |
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No one's saying that. I just think you're being so hard on it to the point where it actually seems like you have a bias against it. |
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| Saturos | Nov 25 2014, 11:23 PM Post #8675 |
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heart-under-blade
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Well, Slash, Boyd is allowed to not like it, and he's allowed to have a bias about it. Boyd not liking Ufotable's F/SN shouldn't prevent you from enjoying it. In my case, it only sweetens the taste. *cackles* |
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| Gilgamesh | Nov 25 2014, 11:25 PM Post #8676 |
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solbowz Aurarius
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I said I didn't have a problem with it because I don't need things to be 1 to 1 perfect. Berserker was still unstoppable, Archer still impressed Ilya for justifiable reasons, Saber actually had visible damage unlike the uftoable anime despite getting hit by [radio edit]ing [SPOILERS], etc. You can do "inescapable horror and futility" in an anime just fine, hell, Prisma Ilya's anime did that with both the Saber and Bazett fights (well, less "horror" on the latter). No it's not interesting and better to watch it's contradicting established rules which makes it stupid and as I said before it retroactively is going to not yet in the anime Fate/Zero already had symptoms of cutting/altering content to pander to Saber and I let those go without much complaining because yeah, they didn't affect the current story much at all and didn't break any established canon. At this point though, with the story moving as slow as it does (as it does in the VN), I have VERY little reason to trudge through all the slow and sometimes boring build up just to get to the better parts when I can't even trust ufotable to do them right. I am not a [radio edit]ing goldfish, I am not going to overlook flaws just because something looks pretty. If I wanted to experience the story of Saber being a super special awesome snowflake I'd just read/watch Fate route again or read any of the doubtless tons and tons of shitty fanfiction that exists. Berserker was picked for the story to begin with as the (physically) strongest and most recognizable hero to fulfill the role of a strong, nearly invincible opponent. How the [radio edit] is "holy shit [BERSERKER'S IDENTITY] is so strong" less interesting than "holy shit that little girl is so strong", you get the latter in other anime ALL THE [radio edit]ING TIME if it's so [radio edit]ing interesting for you So yes, the approach is inherently bad and the only thing interesting about it was Berserker showing off his martial arts, which didn't leave a single scratch on Saber despite, hello, [BERSERKER'S IDENTITY] holy shit that was terrible how do you people like this shit You're damn right I have a bias against it NOW As one of the biggest Fate fans here and the one that usually gets prodded about questions relating to the verse I'm allowed to be mad about this bullshit especially with all the idiots out there praising this anime as the flawless second coming of Madoka jesus or whatever anime that's currently wanked about these days is |
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| Super Slash | Nov 25 2014, 11:39 PM Post #8677 |
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lol once again, I never said he wasn't allowed to dislike it, nor did I ever say his opinion is preventing me from enjoying it. To begin with, I don't dissect the series as much as a lot of fans so I would never notice these kinds of things. At least you elaborated again though Boyd. |
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| HyrulianJedi | Nov 25 2014, 11:49 PM Post #8678 |
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uguu~
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I don't give Ufotable the benefit of the doubt when nothing in the writing supports it, no. It was a graveyard, there's no moving cover. Rin not knowing that Archer can get a clear shot is a bullshit excuse anyway - they talk telepathically. The whole logic of moving to the graveyard was pretty shoddy to begin with: Berserker cleaves everything in two when he swings. What exactly is Saber using as cover, here? Never mind that they really didn't show anything useful at that point in the fight, either, just some sword slashes. The biggest complaint, by far, was the effects of Saber and Archer's final attacks. They went into excessive detail with Archer's, only to...have it have no effect? When Saber's significantly less impressive (and less powerful, judging by the visuals) literally rips Berserker in half? That's absolutely snowflake treatment, designed solely to make Saber look cooler, and it irritated me because there was no reason for it at all. There might have been more, I don't remember. |
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| Saturos | Nov 25 2014, 11:52 PM Post #8679 |
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heart-under-blade
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I wasn't sure what you were talking about until "visible damage," because I think Ufotable still preserves the first two. Spoilers for Berserker's NP As for Ilya being interested in Archer, like I said, you can put that down to Archer not killing Ilya when he clearly was able to. That's the first thing I thought of, and honestly I think that's a good reason to be interested. It's also character-driven, too. Yeah, and people thought the Saber fight was bad because it's all just no-selling stuff. As for your spoiler, I disagree. I think that scene is still going to be fantastic, and I don't think the meaning will be distorted. For that scene later in the route
You can easily flip this. "holy shit that big muscley guy is so strong" is less interesting than "holy shit [SABER'S IDENTITY] is so strong." That being said, sure I think Saber could've taken some more hits, but honestly I didn't even notice she wasn't getting hit. I definitely sympathize with not wanting to endure the slower parts to get to the action scenes, because the pace presently is fairly slow. Especially if you're not sure you'd like the action scenes. However, just because it's not taking the same route or narrative style as the VN doesn't make it bad, it just makes it different. It's an adaptation, not a port. It means it's faithfulness is bad, and I understand that you're upset for that reason. But I don't think it's inherently bad, no. EDIT: HJ, I definitely agree with the animation treatment of their final attacks, insofar as flashiness usually corresponds with power. That was definitely another directorial mistake. The cover thing is from the VN, so that's a UBW flaw. Maybe you could argue that Berserker having to cut through the tombstones in the first place was impediment enough. |
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| Peytral | Nov 26 2014, 12:01 AM Post #8680 |
peytral pls
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He already said he doesn't need things to be 1:1 identical. |
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