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"Melee is perfect" = "Brawl is so flawed; hacking it to play like Melee is NEEDED"
Topic Started: May 11 2008, 07:42 PM (1,205 Views)
Erik the Appreciator
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens

This kinda startled me when I found it: The SSB community apparently hates Brawl so much, they're trying to come up with hacking devices that will cause Brawl games to reemulate the physics of Melee. Such as removing the chance that characters will trip when they dash forward, increasing hit/shield lag, readjust gravity, and restoring the dash-dancing and L-cancel advanced techniques. That way, according to one user, "Brawl may have replayability after all."

Excerpts from the first post:
"We can no longer deny Sakurai programmed Brawl as an exclusively party game, but we can now undo it bit by bit, memory value by memory value..."

"Why do these changes look like we are trying to turn this game into Melee?
Short answer: Because, we are.
Long answer: We are simply trying to make Brawl more competitive with as little changes as possible."

Thoughts? Discuss nao.
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Hinoa
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Enabling Terrible Ideas since 2012

I hope the guy who thought that up chokes on a stick and dies. Seriously.
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Erik the Appreciator
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens

Actually, a lot of the competitive Melee community would advocate this (and devices like these typically cost $30 -$50 each), and as one disgruntled fellow admin told me on SmashWiki, "Melee is a better game than Brawl."
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Hinoa
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Enabling Terrible Ideas since 2012

I've already stated my opinions regarding the "pro scene" of SSB elsewhere, I think. I shan't repeat myself--as if most of my opinions are repeatable on this forum anyway.

Memo to self: If I ever end up in charge of a SSBB tourney, that hack won't be used. HA HA WHERE IS YOUR WAVEDASHING NOW?
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Erik the Appreciator
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens

Guess I'll have to look for your rants myself, then. ;)
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

I came here expecting a rant template.

Anyway sequels usually get bad attention like this. Maybe if tripping was not included none of this would ever happen or at least no bad flaming to Brawl.

Every sequel should have differences so no one will say, "oh this is [insert game here] 1.5" Look at some of the reviews of Advance Wars 2 to see what I mean. Every Mario game in the series are different, Can you imagine someone wanting to make Yoshi's Island run like it's predecessor Super Mario World? Maybe Melee should have been SSB64 with more characters and stages.

Can't sequel and prequel fandoms all live in harmony?

And Hinoa, please locate me to where you ranted about pro players.
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Erik the Appreciator
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens

Ironically, Lin, one of the posts in the first page of the forum I linked reads "ZOMG. Add L-canceling, fix hit-stun, and we've got ourself a beautiful Melee 1.5 at least."

I'm also certain tripping is only one of a LOT of little things Melee-purists hate about Brawl.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

Things like this makes me glad to be a semi casual video game player. I played with live people in my college one time and I had so much fun.

A guy who plays Pit says "I AM THE ANGEL OF DEATH" when he gets the FS
A guy who plays Dedede says "Dance my little bitches, dance" when he activates his FS
They all laugh when Kirby is so short he can avoid Shieks FS by simply standing (well it actually happened)
Everyone is all in a good mood. This is how I feel Brawl should be played. None of this 'Serious Business' stuff.

Who knew a Mascot Fighting game that has Pikachu as one of the fighters can be so mean spirited?
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Erik the Appreciator
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens

Prequel and Sequel fandom clashes would only exist for competitive-style games, though. It wouldn't happen like that for Super Mario World 1 and 2 because those are solo games.

I think I can explain in a nutshell what the Melee community thinks about Brawl: That the changes Brawl made serve to take away from the pure-gameplay competitiveness and add to its status as a party game. Meaning that in Brawl, it doesn't matter as much if you're ultra-skilled because even in totally level playing fields there can still be little things that can happen outside players controls that would cause the player of lower skill level to beat the player of higher skill level when he "shouldn't" be able to. This is considered more Taboo than even Tabuu would tolerate, in the quantitative analyses of the Melee experts.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

Melee community reminds me of the PW shipping community. Ugh!
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Erik the Appreciator
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens

For everyone's reference here's the SmashWiki post to me that caused me to notice the Smash World Forums thread:

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/index.ph...55&oldid=129796

(In here the issue debated is whether articles on Smashers and Crews should be put into namespaces so that smasher article titles read like "Smasher:Isai" and "Smasher:RJM")
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Saturos
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heart-under-blade

>_> I think tourney players just need to get over the elitism - it's a new playing field in Brawl, so they should stop trying to crael back to Melee.
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Erik the Appreciator
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Saturos
May 11 2008, 06:18 PM
>_> I think tourney players just need to get over the elitism - it's a new playing field in Brawl, so they should stop trying to crael back to Melee.

That's what a lot of Brawlers are using as their arguments. The Meleemen, however, say that things like tripping cause the game to be more randomized and less tangible for a competitive purpose, in a fashion that causes Brawl's "new playing field" to have some potholes in it that true competitive games (like real-life baseball and football) would absolutely not tolerate.

(It's sort of like it causes instances where high-skilled players lose to lower-skilled players where they should win and that low-skilled players win over higher-skilled players where they should not win.)
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

This is why my favorite Forum for Smash purposes is Brawl Central. They don't tolerate anti Brawl as much as Smash Boards. Then again it is in the name Brawl Central but at least I don't have to leave their board in disgust like Smash Boards. A friendlier place too.
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

I like the random elements as well. Even if I tend to have really bad luck with them, they occasionally work out in my favor so that I, being only a casual Brawler, can occasionally beat my friends who actually own the system and play it all the time. >_> Elitism is right.
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Hinoa
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Enabling Terrible Ideas since 2012

Lin
May 11 2008, 09:03 PM
And Hinoa, please locate me to where you ranted about pro players.

Multiple times in this thread and just now here (in which I swore a lot). I still kinda want to fit the more explicit version of "go choke on a stick and die" in there, but whatever.
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Blissfulystoopid
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These melee'ers need to get the sticks outta their bottoms and calm down, and realize that SSB isn't supposed to be competitive, and everything that made it competitive was a glitch and an exploit, and if they want a competitive fighter, go play one of the other DOZENS there are.

Just because they don't have a significant advantage, they freak out. It's absolutely rediculous, and rather funny, really. It's just so silly to complain about.
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

After reading this topic I decided to put items back on when playing Friend code battles. I don't want to turn into one of those mean spirited pro players.

It's just that I keep forgetting to turn the items back on after playing With Anyone Brawls. It's fun to see the Ike who kept having a winning streak lose to Ivysaur because the precious Hammers aren't there anymore.

I don't want to turn into those types of players who ban items. At least I played the fun stages with you guys like Spear Piller. Oh how I love using Palkia/Dialga/Cresselia to my advantage. I also loved the time I played on the Summit on a With Anyone match and used Pikachu's projectiles to keep poor Toon Link in the water so the fish will kill him. Brawl is supposed to be fun. Perhaps the ones behind Melee also thought it would be for casual audiences but then it turned out like this. Maybe that's why Brawl physics are different then Melee's.
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The Phantom Squee
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Sound the horn and call the cry: "How many of them can we make die?"

Ugh, I hate playing without items. My friends are all the types who insist that we play "with no items, on Final Destination or Corneria, because items and stages that have terrain make it so you can win without skill." And then I can't be any of my best characters without getting ganged up on (Hey everybody, kill the Pikmin!). ><

But in other news, I hate Spear Pillar. XD That stage has caused me soooo much grief, with that boomerang-throwing-thingy in the background... gah...
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ShinyGirafarig
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Giraffes are adorable.

But Squee there is quite a few spots where you can avoid Cresselia's attacks. I love it on With Anyone when my opponents don't know where and all I do is hit them once and Cresselia takes care of the rest. And I wonder how many players I shocked because I can adapt reasonably well to flipped controls. I remember making it back to safety with Squirtle's Up B with the controls reversed.

Don't you just love using stage hazards to your advantage?
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