Temple of Kraden News:
| Greetings, heathen. Perhaps some fortuitous blessing of Kraden's grace hath led you to our humble Temple, or perhaps you are simply curious about this strange and wonderful cult. Should you be willing - and dare to hope - to achieve enlightenment, the door opens before you. Lo! Leave your old life behind! For once you step through, you become something more than just yourself. You become a Kradenette. Are you willing to make the rapturous plunge? Do you have what it takes? One of us! One of us! One of us! Already one of us? Make your presence known: |
| Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: General Topic | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 11 2007, 05:32 PM (4,733 Views) | |
| Phoenix7 | Nov 11 2007, 05:39 PM Post #161 |
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~
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Case 2-1 was good, but where was the damn motive? :annoyed: There was also no fingerprints, the glasses were pathetic and it just needed more evidence to say Maggey did it. |
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| Erik the Appreciator | Nov 11 2007, 05:56 PM Post #162 |
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens
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Apparently this is the motive: Wellington just happened to be dumb enough to lose his cell phone in the park, so he tried calling it and it was found by Maggey. Even though he's part of a group of small-time con men and thieves and their phones numbers were stored on his, his plan was to get his phone back from whoever found it and nothing more. No murder would have taken place, originally. However, when Wellington found Maggey was with Dustin Prince, very obviously a police officer, he thought Dustin knew about his connection to the crime group because Dustin must have checked the phone numbers. Wellington thought killing him in front of Maggey and implicating Maggey for it would cover his and his group's tracks. Likewise, in the later trial when the phone got into Phoenix's possession, Wellington tried to get the phone back by bashing Phoenix on the head with a friggin' fire extinguisher. But he ended up taking the wrong one - the one belonging to Wright. It was a stupidly executed crime with a motive that was on the spur - that he thought he was trying to keep the other guys safe - but I think that counts as a motive nonetheless. |
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| Phoenix7 | Nov 11 2007, 06:00 PM Post #163 |
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~
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Erik. I was talking about Maggey's motive. :annoyed: |
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| Erik the Appreciator | Nov 11 2007, 06:03 PM Post #164 |
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens
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GAH, COULDN'T YOU HAVE SPECIFIED THE PERSON - ANYONE WOULD'VE ASSUMED "MOTIVE" WOULD HAVE REFERRED TO THAT OF THE GUILTY PARTY BECAUSE THAT'S USUALLY THE PRIMARY PARTY THAT HAS A MOTIVE IN A CRIME --- Hmm... What do you mean, "Maggey's motive?" Unless you mean why she would want to hand a lost phone back to a remote stranger... Well, she looks like the innocent type to find a lost phone on the ground and when it happens to ring she WOULD make an agreement with the stranger on the other side to give it back... I'd guess that being a quirk of her character was all that's important to this case. |
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| Phoenix7 | Nov 11 2007, 06:11 PM Post #165 |
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~
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Where was Maggey's motive for killing Dustin, that's what I'm saying. |
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| Kyarorain | Nov 11 2007, 06:14 PM Post #166 |
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Epitome of Insanity
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Did Maya need a "motive" to "kill" two certain people? It's guilty until proven innocent, and the court only cares about motives when you're trying to prove the real guilty parties guilty, it seems... |
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| ShinyGirafarig | Nov 11 2007, 06:15 PM Post #167 |
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Giraffes are adorable.
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Psst. If you think the motive question was bad wait till you see 2-3. What was Max's motive, huh? |
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| Erik the Appreciator | Nov 11 2007, 06:19 PM Post #168 |
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens
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@Phoenix Wright: *headslaps* That's another little thing about your question that could've been specified a bit earlier. :mellow: Oh well, better late than never: Well, it could argued that there indeed was not a motive for Maggey to have "pushed" Dustin down to his death, the scenario Wellington tries to sell to investigators. But keep in mind that since the detective in charge is loveable ol' blockheaded Gumshoe, any story like that is easy to sell to him. All Gumshoe would pay attention to is what the "evidence" seems to suggest, and in this case the evidence was falsely arranged by Wellington to seem to suggest Maggey pushed Dustin. This is pretty much supposed to be a "stupid" case, we can tell by this point. Sorry for the confusion. ^_^; |
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| Phoenix7 | Nov 11 2007, 06:23 PM Post #169 |
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~
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Kyarorain: My brother's girlfriend played that and she was annoyed at it purely for the fact that Maya had no motive to kill Dr Grey.She thought it a little stupid, mind. Another thing. Spoilers for 2-2 Why didn't Morgan ask Mimi to kill Maya? That way, Maya would never become the Master and Dr Grey would be put on trial for the murder. That would have been easier, if you ask me. |
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| ShinyGirafarig | Nov 11 2007, 06:30 PM Post #170 |
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Giraffes are adorable.
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Most of the cases from the first two games of PW suffer from lack of defendants' motives syndrome. Thankfully the third game establishes good possible motives for the defendants. |
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| Phoenix7 | Nov 11 2007, 06:32 PM Post #171 |
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~
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Larry did have a motive, Cindy was cheating on him. Case 1-4 had a good one. I loved 3-1's motive. |
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| Erik the Appreciator | Nov 11 2007, 06:34 PM Post #172 |
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens
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I never thought possible genuine motives for initial defendants were all that important to the storyline and presentation of each case before now... But I suppose this gives me all the more reason to look forward to PW3. ![]() And yeah, a couple of the first game's cases aren't victims of this non-motive "syndrome", I'll agree. |
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| ShinyGirafarig | Nov 11 2007, 06:34 PM Post #173 |
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Giraffes are adorable.
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1-2 and 1-3 suffered from lack of a theoretical motive for the defendants. Unless I am missing something here. The third game truly did fix this. |
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| Erik the Appreciator | Nov 11 2007, 06:39 PM Post #174 |
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens
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I wouldn't go so far as to say those two cases suffered from that... well, at least they didn't for me personally. But maybe it's because I've yet to experience how game 3 would handle things better than before. |
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| Erik the Appreciator | Nov 12 2007, 02:30 AM Post #175 |
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens
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So I finished 2-2, and what I have to say about it is: WOW. That was some of the most gasp-out-loud astounding plot twists and resolutions I've yet seen in a game! (If I wasn't in a secluded room people might have heard me saying "OH!" and all that.) I would NOT have guessed much of that stuff even up until it was revealed. And I guess I can expect even greater things from this series in the future... For the point about Maya lacking an apparent motive to kill Grey: Well, I think this is the only case around where the defendant would not have needed a motive to do the murder for the sake of making the case itself more "dramatic", as she was supposed to be channeling a dead spirit and we're supposed to believe that the spirit is the one with the motive, getting revenge on Grey for her death. Maya was merely possessed to carry the murder out. And we know how the courtroom in these games say murder is murder regardless of the circumstances, so Maya's possible murder motive would've been borderline irrelevant. To me, this case was perfectly fine in this area. To answer PW's above question: It's possible Morgan did ask Mimi to have the crime set up that way, but a couple possible things - like people in Kurain suspecting Morgan's possible motive for Maya's death and Mimi preferring Grey dead anyway and asking Morgan to execute the crime differently - could have influenced her otherwise. And if you think about it, the concept of Maya letting her channeled spirit take over and murder her client, Grey in this case, would be enough of a dishonor that it would outweigh Maya's murder at the hands of an outsider in sheer negativity in everyone's eyes anyway (lots of mourning would have been held for Maya in that scenario). Maya would have been really ruined by the channeling incident that Morgan arranged to take place instead, and therefore Pearl would have attained the Master's level under a more "worthy" circumstance - that she has just been "proven" to be better at channeling competently than Maya and therefore would get the position with greater approval. If Pearl got her position just because Maya lost her life from a murder, Pearl might not have gotten the town's reverence as easily as Morgan would've absolutely wanted for her. Huh. I'm starting to feel like ol' Nick himself with all that. :lol: Starting case 2-3: Geez, all the characters there look like they belong in a circus! *puts hand onto chin to think in the Phoenix Wright pose* Hmm, I wonder if there's a connection there... |
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| ShinyGirafarig | Nov 12 2007, 08:42 AM Post #176 |
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Giraffes are adorable.
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O rly? I never would have guessed. |
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| Phoenix7 | Nov 12 2007, 11:07 AM Post #177 |
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Odyssey, ya see~ Odyssey, ya see~
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XD Regina is hawt though. |
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| Erik the Appreciator | Nov 13 2007, 02:32 AM Post #178 |
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens
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To think I share my age with Maxie... Do I rejoice or do I shudder over that? Yes, I definitely look forward to finding out why Phoenix says Edgey is "dead" and orders people not to ever say the name in front of him. (Don't spoil it yet, obviously!) The "I've had enough of you!! And him, too!" line in front of Franny at the snowed-in lodge was pretty cool. |
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| ShinyGirafarig | Nov 13 2007, 12:59 PM Post #179 |
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Giraffes are adorable.
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I share my age with Lana Skye. Is that a good thing? |
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| Erik the Appreciator | Nov 14 2007, 01:49 AM Post #180 |
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Master of Trivia, Grand Patron of 5 Gens
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Having done case 2-3: DEAR LORD! The surprising revelations just keep on coming with these games. I doubt there's many people around who don't think these cases are astoundingly plotted and crafted the first time they play them. I gotta say: unlike the last game where I wasn't even aware that you could abuse the save system, I find I gotta abuse it in this game a lot, since things seem quite a bit harder. At least the save system allows me to complete these games all "on my own" without needing to refer to any online hint sources like GameFAQs. I guess most PW players play these games just like that. |
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